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Thanks Emil!

November 7, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Greetings,
Sometimes you just have to write what you feel, so this is me- take it or leave it. There are no apologies or retractions being offered for anything I say in this blog.
The Internet is, to paraphrase Dickens, the best of things and the worst of things. It is the great leveler which promotes egalitarianism and mindless junk from people deluding themselves they think what they are talking about. The deserved success of v-commie means that all this is well represented.
A long time ago, one of the nicest and smartest people on this site once said of me regarding some advice I gave `Buri is sometimes right and sometimes wrong.` This is a kind of example of what I am referring to above. It is a strong minded beginner’s honest feelings and it is completely wrong. The fact is that in the very restricted realm of violin teaching I am usually right. Gosh, I can feel the hackles rising, the hands reaching for the word processor already. But think about it. I am a qualified violin teacher from an internationally recognized institute as are so many others on this site. So is a fireman, a policeman, a computer programmer or a chef.. In not one of these professions is a person sometimes right and sometimes wrong. They are trained like hell to be as close to one hundred percent correct one hundred percent of the time as is humanly possible. That is the basis of the trust we have in them. The many better teachers than me are just a tiny little bit more knowledgeable than me here or there. It makes a big difference. The world class teachers are just a few percentage points more insightful than those teachers but it makes all the difference in the world.
Why do I mention this?
Well, first of all I would like to say a big thank you to Emil for regularly visiting v.commie over the years and generously giving so much brilliant advice, for answering relentless attacks on himself with patience and clarity. A model of a gentleman in the truest sense.
Then I would like to ponder the question of how he must have felt over recent years as people who had no clue about his talent, life time achievements, sacrifices to get there and sheer intellect repeatedly misrepreresented what he said to promote the agendas of their own egotistical agendas. The issue of egotism seemed central to me. Emil was accused time and time again in various guises of being an egotist and it constantly baffled me. It was actually a constant failure to recognize that he was speaking as an artist speaks about the violin at its highest level of achievement in the classical field. It was all so straightforward yet so often all weI saw was the obsessive pressure of the Internet on people to attack without reflection. We are all in such a godamn rush to get in print at times.
To put it another way, suppose I went to a party and Perlman, Ilya Gringolts, Zahkar Bron etc happened to be present. I would be damn sure of my position in the pecking order and I would be honored to just listen and ask respectful questions when I wasn’t getting in people’s way. Sometimes I really wish others would look at the site a little more like that.
Well, v.commie is now the poorer so I guess I would just like to wish Emil more of the success and happiness he has rightly earned.
BTW Emil, I suspect you need a liver cleanse, seriously.
Respectfully,
Buri

I seem to be missing something...is Emil departing V.com? If so, we are indeed the poorer.

Wow, Buri, what a beautiful post. The Internet has been called "the great equalizer", and while there are those who consider this an unconditionally wonderful thing, I personally believe there are cases when hierarchy---especially when that hierarchy is the direct consequence of achievement---should be respected.

Thank you, too, for not falling into the easy trap of placing the blame exclusively on young people. It is here on V.com that I have met some people half my age whom I now consider among my best friends and role models in many ways.

Greetings,
Karen, I agree about the young people thing. Look at how everybody jumped on young Blake for his youthful over confidence re the Julliard. Yet the rest of us er, `Oldies` have really just learned to hide our little conceits behind more devious language. It can be tiring at times...
Cheers,
Buri
and yes, I menat to write Karin. Sorry.
Yes we are much poorer. Buri,your comments were very pertinent and well thought out, showing maturity and self-reflection--as always.
What did I miss?! When and why did Emil leave???

:***(

The gravity of the situation is apparent as the blog has very few typos.It would be very sad if someone of Emils stature left the forum.Unfortunatley the anonimity of the forum makes it easy for people to be misunderstood and to misrepresent themselves.Thus in the case of the young boy asking a simple question as to the level of the audition he suddenly became an arrogant young whippersnapper.Emils superior knowledge offended the ignorant.
Well-put on all levels, Buri (and others who replied here so elegantly). But I, too, seem to have missed a drama. Emil is gone? Buri, is there a thread/discussion you can give us the link to?
"Emils superior knowledge offended the ignorant."

Not this ignorant. I am not offended. I was teasing my brain hard to see what goes in Chef Pierre's cooking.

Ihnsouk

Good blog Buri. I hope Emil isn't gone forever. I come to violinist.com to learn from the posters that really know what they are talking about. I appreciate the time consuming efforts the experts put into helping others.
I too am very sorry that Emil is leaving v.com. I've enjoyed and valued his posts even when I have been in total disagreement with his POV.

Perhaps this will encourage us all to use a greater degree of sensitivity and mutual respect in our dialogue.

However, that being said, I do not think that anybody should feel obligated to sit humbly and silently at the feet of the masters. We are not all equal in our accomplishments or knowledge, but we are all equal in our right to express our opinions and to be respectfully listened to. I can attest, that as an experienced professional and teacher, I have learned a great deal from many people on this forum whose credentials are far below my own.

Summing up: let's express ourselves freely, show respect and sensitivity for all, refrain from personal attacks.

Buri, if you ask me, your disclaimer at the beginning is unnecessary. Your post, on the other hand, seems pretty essential. I couldn't agree more. You make an interesting point about the internet's egalitarianism. This opens up all sorts of interesting questions I'd love to discuss. One thing you don't mention is that the internet also allows one to create an identity - you can be whoever you want to be online. How can I as a newcomer to a site tell who is legit without careful reading and good critical thinking skills? Difficult. Is there a way to recognise this? Not without accepting what not only Emil's been telling us all along - experts know better. Is there a failsafe way to pick out an expert - again without careful reading, knowledge of the subject, and good critical reading skills? I'm still looking for a way out - ideas?
Greetings,
Roy, thanks for raising the important point:
>However, that being said, I do not think that anybody should feel obligated to sit humbly and silently at the feet of the masters. We are not all equal in our accomplishments or knowledge, but we are all equal in our right to express our opinions and to be respectfully listened to.

I couldn`t agree more. I don`t think there were many more people open to this than Emil. My actualy point really concerns a) the quality of the opinion being expressed and b) what happens after that.
Taking those in order, I pose the question `what are many people doing when they are expressing an opinion?` If it is done in the spirit of offering and humblness with the intention of both learning and informing then that`s great. It can exist with equal rights in the company of any deity you choose to name. However, when the sub text of the `opinion` is `I am better than you and you have nothing to offer that can prove this wrong` then that is a rather different ballgame and yes, this is the way a lot of people communicate. One of the things that made Emil`s responses so important for this site was that he treated them equally irrespective of what people were trying to prove. This was the mark of a genuine intellect, open to ideas, and it also demonstrated a respect downwards which I afraid frequently did not exist upwards. Then, after having their fallacies patiently pointed out the `humble` offerer of opinions was often so determined to hang onto their original premise (because that is their investment) that they would distort or misrepresent what Emil or others like him say so as not to `lose` their argument. In the end, it was just that: an argument -not- an opinion that was being offered.
So although your point is well taken, its about time some people learnt that although everyone has equal rights to express an opinion they ought to first make sure that is what they are doing and that it is offered in the spirit of genuine sharing and learning.
If not, then I`m afraid at some point it is bette r left unsaid rather than giving an airing for proving the important but rather vague -generalization- that we are equal under the sun.
Cheers,
Buri

Greetings,
Megan, sorry I`m gettng behind now. Thought this would stir things up...
I honestly have no idea about this fake thing. I think it is usually clear very quickly to some extent through the quality of what is written. Then there are the pretty good safeguards Laurie and Robert seem to have covering things. There`s only been one really nasty event I can recall in the history of v.commie by a pervert. I think we are helped by the fact that the violin/music world is big but it is also a rather closed shop so people are very quick to notice this kind of problem and warn others. That is one of the many -useful= things a site like v.commie can actually assist in. Indeed, I think there are greta possibilities for this site to take a proactive role in many differnt way in the world. An example that springs to mind might be cordinating and making public the needs ofmusicians who travel so that airlines have to sit up and take notice.
Getting back to the fake thing, I have noticed it is very hard for top players to participate on this site. I know Max Venegerov use dto rea dit and has snet me email. But even when Imention this in passing people immediatley start challenign me ot prove it was that great man , as though thta was an importnat issue! However, I do not think it is the fault of this site - it is just the problem of celebrity...
Ihnsouk- I have never had any reservations about the integrity and intellect with which you had you exchanges with Emil. Nobody iscomplaining about genuine mutual disagreement. Who wnats to live in a boring world?
CHeer,s
Buri
I think Emil, as well as a few other talented violinists who no longer post here, are incredibly frustrated by beginers or just music lovers whose comprehension of the repertoire and the technical aspects of the instrument is so neglible, that when they start to make assertions, it's hard to take seriously. I started reading and posting here 2 or 3 years ago, and have noticed quite a steady decline in the amount of actual people who play the violin, especially ones who play it well.

I don't think, for example, a physics professor could tolerate sitting in a room full of lay people with a passing interest in the study of energy and motion. It's fine when someone is there to learn, and to ask questions, but when people who don't really have any business making certain statements start doing so, it gets very irritating.

Actually there are just simply more people using the site, period. More students, more amateurs, more professionals. Every single day, between 6-12 new people register on the site, and consistently a third of them are professionals with high credentials.

If you hate students or amateurs for being ignorant, then yes, you are posting in the wrong place. The young students are actually your future colleagues. The older students are the ones who buy tickets to attend concerts and pay you to teach them. Yes, I've had the experience of dealing with people who play at a low level but think they know a great deal more than they do, and that can be frustrating. But far more people are just simply interested in learning more, in being more, in growing in their experience of music and playing the violin. Let's help them out.

Laurie,

I completely agree with you. The site has obviously gotten a lot bigger, but when you talk about the core group of people who post quite often, the professional or pre-professional level people have diminished.

Regardless of this, I think what you say is important. Yes, there are a lot of kids who come here (myself included) who learn great things from the more knowledgeable colleagues. However, (and I've discussed this with several people in person, who I know as friends - some of the better violinists who read this site), that a large part of this core group are obnoxious people who will say fairly ridiculous things, and argue with people who are hardly even on the same planet. Also, some of the "pedagogues" on this site, who give information to a lot of people, pass along things which are quite questionable.

That's just reality, and it still is a great resource. I hope that it continues to thrive. It's just distressing that one by one, the people who actually play the violin (and post often), leave.

Pieter,

Don't get too depressed, LOL! This, too, will pass, and I assure you, there are plenty of professionals whose resumes blow both yours and mine out of the water who will step up!

I'd certainly hope so... I haven't been at this violin thing very long.
No one minds when a beginner or amateur has an opinion or disagrees with a more experienced player that can lead to an interesting discussion.What is not acceptable is name calling at any level and I've seen some very rude posts directed at Emil.
Good luck Emil.

I enjoyed reading that Buri. Good post.

Thanks for replying, Buri. I think the problem of misrepresentation as it applies to V.com isn't people pretending to be things/people they are not, but rather a general suspicion that that may be the case. Take, for instance, your Vengerov remark - it's almost as if many people enter an online community aware they shouldn't necessarily believe everything they are told, and thus determined to distrust - or even shoot others down.

I am extremely disappointed that Emil won't be posting here anymore - I've always looked forward to reading what he has to say.

I’m very sad to hear that Emil has left v.com. He has taught me so much and I never wanted to miss anything he wrote, as they are always extremely informative, well-written and indeed, in a no-nonsense sort of way that is all too rare to be found these days.

Buri, thanks so much for this beautiful blog. It goes way beyond what Emil deserves to hear (and I do hope he reads this), it also makes all of us to reflect on our own online behaviour, and hopefully, we’ll learn something from it.

I recall many times Emil stated to the effect that it was those amateurs and music lovers that he was trying hard to reach. So I think it would be a gross underestimate of his generosity and kindness to suggest that he left because he was disappointed with the ignorant amateurs. Being an ignorant armature myself, I also often wonder why I’m being so vocal on v.com while apparently so many professionals are silent. One thing that keeps me going here is the hope that my silly questions and comments may lead to some interesting discussions, as we say in Chinese, to throw a brick to induce a jade. Not sure this always works.

The kind of distrust that Megan mentioned could be interpret as a health skepticism on one hand; on the other hand, however, I feel strongly that the starting point of any successful communication or exchange ideas and friendship must be trust, charity and giving tons of benefit of the doubt. To do otherwise, the loss is too great. Years of philosophy training tells me that critical thinking and taking a skeptical stance may make one look savvy and sharp for a while, but it really doesn’t take one very far, as it tends to preternaturally shut too many doors.

Online communication like v.com is that it is very much like in-classroom discussion in that the knowledge and credibility of the participants get revealed within a few classes. It doesn’t take long for us to figure out who are the “stronger” ones that we need to listen to more carefully and show more deference. My point is that it is useless to figure out who is the real expert and who is not. Appeal to authority won’t lead us to truth. If you listen to what each says very carefully and think about them a lot, very soon you’ll have a pretty solid feeling who really knows what he/she is talking about.

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