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The much sought after Heifetz audition tape
Here it is. Enjoy.
Replies (97)
Greetings,
I didn`t know this had a reputation for being hard to find. It is on the second video of the Heifetz masterclasses which you can buy from Shar (at least I did about 4 years ago). The gigglers are all his studnets and you can see them being er, bullied or whatever on the video. This fooling around aside, I rate these particular videos -very- highly. There is a lot to be learnt form them asides from the historical interest.
Cheer,s
Buri
Thank you so much, Peter. What a wonderful site and how kind of you to share it with us.
The gentleman at the very beginning is Erik Friedman.
Ms. Thomas shows these videos to all her students at her summer home. It's a riot, especially when Nicolo begins whisteling in the background.
Preston
this is hilarious because a lot of these embarrasing idiosyncracies are so very real. The faked runs... the horrible finger vibrato, the skating contact point... it takes a violinist of heifetz's calibre to lampoon these things.
Um, Peter, I just posted this in my YouTube, Part Two post....co-incidence??
I was thinking of making an entire separate post for it, but then decided against it, thinking it's best to just post it in the YouTube post.
I too was looking for this video a long time and found it just yesterday night.
Like Buri said, this video of Heifetz is pretty much still available "not rare", I think Ebay had a copy a couple of weeks ago. The good thing about youtube offering this scene and many others, is that I don't have to get my copy out and search for this particular segment.
Larry,
What do you mean?
There are some pretty funny moments on the video other than the "audition." I don't know that it's on Youtube yet, but just watch where H asks Friedman to play a bunch of scales, one harder than the last. Each time Erik finishes, he's greeted by an icy stare, no words. It's priceless! Doesn't sound funny, but it is, though probably not to Friedman.....
-Laura
I think I bought these master classes as videotapes about 10(?) years ago, and I have watched them carefully many, many times. The audition parody is indeed subtle. He appears to make every conceivable kind of technical and musical misstep (in shifting, vibrato, phrasing, faking, bowing, etc.). I even think one shift sounds like an imitation of Hubermann. And the rest of the master classes display (at least a little of) his full range of human and musical traits: Attention to detail, sarcasm, genuine humor, empathy (believe it or not), showmanship, musical insight, callousness, and all the rest. That one gesture he makes with his arms in describing the atmospheric quality that the Poeme has to have is worth a million words. It's really great, and I can't imagine it's out of print. As an amateur, I've gotten a lot out of it. I can only imagine what a pro can get out of it. And, yes, doesn't Friedman look uncomfortable?
Sandy
Larry,
Yes, I saw your post on the YouTube thread, but I had already submitted this thread. I'm surprised to see this thread pop up now. But heck, like they say, two threads are better than one.
Wooo hoooo! After watching that audition tape I can say in all honesty that I play like Heifetz.
Neil
I just discovered this "audition" clip in youtube a short while ago. It is so hilarious! I could not stop laughing.
ah, it's a bit cruel... ...and I have to say the groups laughter looks a bit put on - a bit forced.
gc
Greetings,
Graham, I had the same reaction. I couldn`t help feeling that some of the laughter was because they were afraid not to laugh since it was what the master wanted.
Cheer,s
Buri
"I couldn`t help feeling that some of the laughter was because they were afraid not to laugh since it was what the master wanted."
Exactly. Very familiar as an indispensable behavior displayed in the workplace by secretaries. Probably comes from the feeling you could be replaced in five seconds....
A friend of mine, also visible on the tape, said the laughter was real.
They would say that, but follow the secretary back to her cube and say something that's actually funny and that miserable expression on her face doesn't change a bit :)
P.S. Who are the rest of the people on the tape? Eric Friedman is one, I think.
Wow! That guy is pretty good, who is he?
The blonde girl is Claire Hodgkins, I'm almost sure.
This is one of two YouTube videos in my Facebook profile, this one labeled "I can play violin like Heifetz!"
(The other one is labeled, "Uhh, guess I can't...")
I always found this particular piece of Heifetziana distasteful and mean spirited--that may well explain Friedman's discomfort.
Jay wrote: "I always found this particular piece of Heifetziana distasteful and mean spirited--that may well explain Friedman's discomfort."
Yes, true. However, you can tell that Heifetz paid much careful attention to each subtle "mistake" so as to make it a "perfect" mistake. He must have practiced it carefully. It truly is brilliant. And, yes, that Heifetz "edge" and callousness is certainly there. Wouldn't be vintage Heifetz without it.
Maybe their discomfort came from recognising what he'd been criticizing them for during the masterclasses. Funny, but 'oh yeah, I do that too' - to some extent.
To me, it shows poor character, a bad example as a role model, and it's generally in poor taste.
Disappointing to see a master resort to this.
William,
If you read Sherry Kloss's book on Heifetz, you may understand why Heifetz brought up this "joke." During the early years of Heifetz masterclass, the screening and administration of the audition were not as rigorous. In particular, the book mentioned a female university student came to the audition by playing a C-major scale she just learned the day before. Turns out that was all she knew about violin and she just wanted to tell her friends that she played for Heifetz. Therefore, what you saw was not really that exaggerated. To be rude, Heifetz saw quite a few jerks like that during his early teaching career......
Of course it's in bad taste, that's half of what's so funny about it. I don't think it's exceptionally mean-spirited--a bit, yes, but not dreadfully. (I mean, he didn't specify WHO exactly he was imitating!) I also thought the laughter didn't seem forced.
I love how he inadvertently starts sounding like an old Szekely village fiddler at about -3:59...
At least it shows that Heifetz knew exactly what a bad player has to do in order to be a bad player.
I'm not at all sure that the intent is entirely malicious.
I've had things like this happening to my own playing, and I would have loved to know what to do about it then and there.
It seems to me that any good teacher should be able to demonstrate not only how to play, but also how not to play. Students need to observe not only how it should be done, but how they are doing it that could be improved. And it's hard to observe what you're doing while you're doing it. Seeing a teacher who is able to imitate how you are playing is incredibly valuable. And I recall reading somewhere that Heifetz the teacher used his incredible talent for mimicry to do just that. That small clip of the "audition" demonstrates almost a different poor habit and case of poor musical judgment at almost every note. I'm no professional musician or music teacher, but it seems to me that it is remarkable, and can be studied frame by frame, measure by measure. Heifetz took his teaching quite seriously, and one of his famous quotes is, of course, that violin playing "is a perishable art." That he had an edge to his personality and that he could be brutally direct and autocratic does not diminish the potential of that clip to teach. (And I do think it really is funny, including the moment where he wipes his nose.)
Sandy
Looking through the comments I agree that the parody is in poor taste. It would take a strong set of nerves to play for Heifetz and a shaky performance due to "stage fright" would be greeted by most masters with sympathy rather than derision.
I don't think it reflects a lot of credit on Heifetz.
I come neither to praise nor to Buri - um, bury ;-) Ceaser in his character. But I think we should lighten-up and enjoy it. I think the laughter was real. My own certainly has been - having seen it many times. I think it relieved the tension in the class for a while.
I think that the Friedman episode was a kind of out-take that pobably wasn't aired live at the time. (I have a dim memory of some of them on tv.) He wasn't prepared; his wrist hurt, and he didn't play a full segment. What I liked about that segment was how Friedman stood his ground, refused to play any more when he couldn't, and didn't cower before the great H.
Poor taste? Unnecessarily cruel? Sarcastic? Unsympathetic? Immature? Undiplomatic?
Sure. But I think there is a place in this world for those who call it exactly like they see it, and who aren't afraid of hurting others' feelings. It's not my preferred style, but the incredible expertise Heifetz displays in this parody is something everyone can learn from and (I agree) lighten up about. Maybe it's not a good precedent for teaching us sensitive, insecure students.
But look at the other side of the coin. In this world - especially when you're standing up on a stage and have every critic jumping down your throat and comparing you to the likes of Oistrakh and Milstein and Heifetz and Paganini - you can't be a withering flower. If you can't handle it from your teacher, how is your ego going to survive in the big cruel world out there?
Again, it ain't my preferred style - as a student or a teacher (I teach psychology, not fiddle playing) - but maybe the world needs a few characters like Jascha Heifetz and Dr. House, just to add a little spice to life.
Several years ago I was the Counseling Director here at IIT in Chicago. At that time, we also helped graduating law students with their job interview skills. We got a report that one recruiter from a law firm was asking applicants why they chose to come to a 3rd-rate law school like ours. The students who didn't crumble under the question and stated that they got a good law education here were the ones asked back for a second interview. It turns out that the interviewer was himself a graduate from our law school - he was looking for confidence in an applicant.
Sandy
I think it has more to do with his own personality and peculiar ego than a teaching experience never to forget... Behind the screen, I sense something else... who is the strongest, who is the weakest... Something related to a natural selection which is an idea I desagree with but that is constantly applied in our world surrounded by all kinds of predators. Sibelius was weak as a violinist... but he wrote one of the most beautiful violin concerto ever written. So when you get at the very top like Heifetz, you must think about this and have consideration towards others.That is the real understanding I have about such personalities , who should behave with respect and true understanding towards others who seem to be less fortunate. It simply does add spice to life in a more constructive way...
Hi, Marc: Good points, and I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said. Certainly the need for understanding, empathy, support, respect, constructive criticism, appreciation, nurturing of talent and maturity, and helping people in a facilitative way along the path to intellectual and artistic and indeed personal development are the hallmarks of an ideal teacher. All I am saying is that in the endlessly diverse realm of personality differences, there is room for an occasional Heifetz, and that every so often it is refreshing to look through that kind of lens. And I do think there is something to be said for a student's development to have the occasion to survive that kind of teaching experience, which happens perhaps a little more often than we think in any field.
Well: Auer used to bang at the piano and shout according to Milstein or leave Heiftez and his father at the entrance door of the teaching room, whitout inviting them in with courtesy That is certainly worse and odd. But Milstein insisted Auer acted this way in order to teach his students to struggle and be strong. Even during that era, it was difficult to survive as a musician... So, maybe this is why Heifetz asked Friedman in one of these masterclasses to play a difficult capriccio of Paganini he was not currently practicing ( and it does not sound to good indeed) and a scale in tenths in Fsharp minor in the upper register that he refuses to complete after a while..."Tired already" said Heifetz. Maybe the master was testing Friedman's ego. The problem with Heifetz in these master classes is that we never know what he is up to... I am just trying to guess. But I do not like the "Imitazione" for the above mentionned reasons. Kreisler or any other great violinist would have not gone so far...
Anyone that cannot enjoy this video must be a pretty miserable human being, wrapped up in his/her own pompous little world. If I were there I would have been rolling on the floor and not out of a secretary syndrome, but sheer 'joie de vivre'.
We now know how bad the Del Gesu will sound in ordinary hands.
Dion: your comment makes me crawling on the floor!!!!!! I should precise,on the ground because I am outdoors actually and there is a lot of activity here... I smile all the time, I am happy and I am interested in others. I enjoy life a lot, I am in love and it is beautiful!!! No doubt that the others that share my opinion, or not, are feeling the same way as I...
The subject-matter does not have anything to do with "Joie de VIvre "... "Joie de Vivre" does not have affinities with an old video of an old fashion sense of humor in a boring old fashion class ... "Joie de Vivre" is like that movie with Diane Lane,"Under Tuscan Sun ", or Russel Crow and Marion Cotillard in "A good year"... While I am writing this,the kids are yelling and jumping in the swimming pool, the dog is barking, and we are about to have a wonderful mediteraneean meal with a french glass of wine. Neighbours will join... we are right in the middle of the Boreal forest up here and birds are singing... That is for me "Joie de Vivre". As simple as that ! And sharing constructive ideas about different opinions with you Dion and my other friends on violist.com for whom I have the most respect, this is part of "Joie de Vivre" also... Cheers!!! as Buri would say, with a fine glass of wine in hands!!! Hope that this comment will make you smile...and Heifetz!
I've learned more from this video than any violin tape I have ever watched. All the mistakes I have made at various times and still make were highlighted, amplified and exorcised. If Heifetz played it perfectly it would have been beyond me, and I would have forgotten it tomorrow. With this parody the mistakes will be burned in my brain, the bowing over the bridge, the bow sliding all over the place, the excruciating double stops, the broken rhythm, the false notes, the erratic trembling bow, shoulder bowing, not listening to the piano, etc etc etc. This was indeed a master class for a rabbit like me.
They say that comedy is the most difficult of all acting and it indeed took skill for Heifetz to pull this off.
Although this was a class demonstration, in the 40`s,Heifetz made records under the name J Hague. They were pardodies of bad playing and must have involved many hours of practice with E. Bay to perfect the bad playing. I think the class demonstration was an extention of something he had been doing privately for years and even recorded.
@Dion. Well, you see, your personal views of the video are well expressed here.You make an interesting point and I feel happy it remains in your case an enjoyable experience. But this kind of humor is not for me. Not my cup of tea...
Our collegue Micah David posted on the blog segment a video that could be a response to this discussion in a way... "Sometimes the violin world can look like this..." Go and watch it... Because I have seen many students and teachers behaving that way towards the less talented... I always thought that the student may have seen the Imitazione of Heifetz portraying his audition... And he must have been hurt for ever...Watch the video...It is beautiful...
Makes me wonder how the original piece sounds! As a beginner I can't say much about the fingering and shifting but the bow sure is.. sliding and hacking into the strings. The first note was epic! I've heard that mistake before.. I wonder how much will I discover in that video in a year.
It might be disrespectful towards the author of the piece but I believe it is very educational. It's not about the taste in humor because it simply isn't a joke but there's nothing wrong laughing at it. Like some pointed out, it takes a lot to master mistakes with a perfect technique. Surely many can fake it but I doubt it will be as good as in that video.
Cheers,
Theo
Theodor: The ironic thing here is that Heifetz made what is perhaps the premier recording of that piece (the Vieuxtemps Concerto #4, of which that is the first movement). A few have come close to that performance, but not many.
Sandy
For a serious recording of #4, I prefer Grumiaux - and I'm a great admirer of both. It has more nobility for me. Plus, no cuts in that wonderful orchestral intro - which, at the premier, got Vieuxtemps an ovation as a composer, before he began to play one note as a violinist. For #5, I prefer Heifetz. Somehow, for me, his more driven, electric style suits the more unrelenting pace of #5. And those cuts don't bother me. Also, Vieuxtemps wrote 2 alternate cadenzas for his own #5. H plays one, which I prefer, and G plays the other.
Yet I have a sneaking suspicion about myself in this regard, and I've thought to start a separate thread about this. As it happened, I was exposed to G.'s #4 recording, which I prefer, long before H.'s. And the opposite with #5. I became familiar with H.'s #5 recording first. Could some of this be imprinting? Has anyone else felt this with different things? Not necessarily, though, as I think of it. My first exposure to the Beethoven concero was Szigeti, which I set aside for Heifetz for a long time. But ultimately, I came to prefer Grumiaux. With the Brahms, I got to know it first through the Szerying recording, but I now have no one favorite. I could go on and on in this vein. So I think that imprinting can have an influence, but not necessarily a permanent one.
Best imprinting= the concert hall. I avoid recordings as much as possible. Some listen to these over an over again instead of going to concerts. And when they do, they are brainwashed by this or that interpretation of Horowitz or Heifetz... We have first rank performers today that play as well,if not better.
I can respond a few different ways:
1. We can immediately get to opening the can of worms. Who plays better today than Heifetz or Horrowitz? I'm not talking about an interpretive preference, as you see from my own last thread. Or maybe that's what you meant.
2. As a performer, myself, as well as a sometime recording artist, I'm certainly all for live performance. They are not mutually exclusive. The first time I heard Aaron Rosand play a large chunk of the Chausson Poeme at a master class, he displaced for me, my much-listened-to recordings of Oistrakh, Heifetz, Grumiaux - and even his own! The problem is that concerts of particular people and pieces aren't just available when we are, and can be quite expensive sometimes.
3. The best imprinting is no imprinting. When beginning to teach a piece to students, I've sometimes said that it's OK to get a recording - but while they're at it, to get at least 2 or more recordings, to help avoid the problem in the first place.
Who can play better than Horowitz: Martha Argerich, Nelson Freire for sure. Heifetz: Mutter is as accurate ,Ehnes and Hahn, the same, but with a different style. Hahn played a perfect Beethoven two weeks ago . Muttter a very impressive Mendelssonhn this year. Same for Ehnes with the Sibelius. These artists are equal if not superior to both Horowitz and Heifetz.
If some skilfull player would play Beethoven the way Heifetz did 70 years ago,or Bach with all the portamenti, I do not think it would be acceptable musically speaking... Standards are different,style evolved.
OK, we're into opinions here, are we not. My first exposure to the Vieuxtemps #4 was the Menuhin recording (which is beautiful). When I came across the Grumiaux, it became my favorite. I came across the Heifetz recording much later, and at first really found it kind of boring - too perfect and mannered with the predictable Heifetz approach. I've heard a few other performances over the years, and I can't say that there are any I haven't liked.
However, as time goes by, I keep coming back to the Heifetz version and appreciating it more and more. Yes, you may prefer other violinists for a variety of reasons, but I do not understand how one can play the violin at any level and not appreciate the absolutely unique and genuine musical voice of Jascha Heifetz. As someone once said about his performance of the Tchaikovsky, it is so strikingly definitive that others will have to take a "different path" to reach an equally definitive interpretation.
Sandy
Sander: I do not think that there is any such thing as definitive, mathless or the best ever... personnaly, I think that his Vieuxtemps 4 is my favorite, but not his Tchaïkovski. It is below from what I heard from many violinists and not respecful to the original score. Heifetz is a great violinist...not the greatest. I appreciate him more in some kind of music and less in other. And yes,he is indeed quite predictable. Argerich and Horowitz are not. And I like everything that is not predictable, I avoid what is is to much calculated...You cannot over and over again repeat exactly the same musical line just one way... perfection does not exist...it is an illusion of our mind, and an obstacle to creativity and the spirit.
I don't think it is possible not to have at least some imprinting going on. That is just the mechanism of cognition and memory.
The first recording I heard of the Tchaikovsky was Ralph Holmes' version for "the Great Musicians" series, and I still miss some of his idiosyncracies when I hear anyone else playing it.
Mendelsohnn and Bruch? My first exposure was Julian Olevsky. Beethoven? Kogan, then Ricci. Brahms/Franck sonatas? Alan Loveday. Bartok concerto? Kyung Wha Chung.
gc
Hi, Marc:
Yes, do you know what Menuhin said about Heifetz? It was something to the effect that "It is a valid approach, but it is not mine." When I said "definitive" I didn't mean that Heifetz was just better than anyone else. He achieved a distinct, perfect reflection of a musical line and "voice." Few have achieved their own voice so perfectly.
And, by the way, I never liked the Heifetz performance of the Tchaikovsky until actually the last few years. It was too fast, too scratchy. No lingering over a musical phrase.
It has taken me a lifetime to reappraise what I was listening to - incredible passion, directness, and a soaring musical voice - not sentimental but with an ardent passion that just dominates your ear and your heart.
I'm not a professional violinist, just an amateur but a life-long "appreciator" of the art of the violin, and it's taken me over 60 years to listen to what was right in front of me all the time. I hope I'm not too presumptuous in wishing the same for you; you don't know what you're missing.
I always appreciate your comments.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Sandy
Sandy..I am 54 and If I reply to you,It is because I appreciate your comments. You are also unique as a person and very interesting... Ideas or perceptions should never be the same for everyone,otherwise, life would be so boring.I just simply think that I evolved as a musician and a human being, and yes,Heifetz is unique, but Neveu ,Oistrach and Kreisler or Mutter,as much in a sense. Heifetz was the first one to extent violin repertoire on recording. Oistrach did not benefit of the same technology. Still,I like them all for what they are and their immense contribution to the music . It is as simple as that.
I do not live in the past and I believe that performers of today are great. Certainly Heifetz has contributed,like all his collegues, to raise the standards of violin playing. And I am grateful and appreciate it. But still,there is always much to do,much to improve interms of creativity, not perfection "ou des choses figées dans le temps"...
So,wish you the best,my friend...
Thank you. I feel the same. And, yes, in spite of many of my comments, I do like the violinists around today, too. This website continues to be a unique forum for some very, very special people, and I think you are one of them also.
Sandy
Got to get back to what may laughingly be called 'work.'
I don't think that the laughter was forced.
But I am sure they where laughing at ME :(
I am a great admirer of Mutter, Ehnnes, Hahn, and other modern violinists. And it partly depends on the music and my own listening mood. Hearing Han's Brahms concerto recently blew me away. And she plays The Lark ascending as though she's an Angel ascending. But Heifetz reditions of the Siding suite, the concertos of Korngold, Conus, the Vitali Chaconne, his way with Gershwin, etc. etc. are peerless. Then there's Szeryings magisterial Bach - and Grumiaux's. Each great artist has particular strnghts.' But is it an accident that so many of the great violinists, arguably kings of the violin world, have acknowledged Heifetz as the emperor? Off hand, I know for sure that this list includes Oistrakh, Szerying, Stern, Perlman, Zukerman, Laredo, Rosand, Silverstein, Dicterow, Rabin, Libove, etc. etc. Also pianist, Garry Graffman, cellists Piatigorsky, Rose and Starker - and a fellow named Toscanini.
It's easier - not easy - to play more perfectly when you play more carefully. What Heifetz and Horowitz added to the mix - which included unique and readily identifiable sounds and musical personalities - was a kamakazi-like daring in performance and recordings, which generated an enormous amount of excitement and electricity. Listen to something like the first movement of the Sinding Suite. Heifetz' rendition is as accurate as pinpoints of laser lights - but with a dash and electricity that just keeps me at the edge of my seat - and it's emotional as well. Is that the approach I'd like to hear for everything? No, as I've indicated before.
I also don't believe in living in the past. Nor do I believe in ignoring it. If Heifetz' approach, with his slides etc. is not acceptable in some circles today, more's the pity. If that's wrong, I don't want to be right. But as the saying goes, 'everything old is new again', and it's time for people not familiar enough with Heifetz and Horowitz to be dazzled anew. And as Rosand insists, Heifetz' tempi in Beethoven are much closer to the composer's metronome markings.
To re-open another can of worms, I find it very curious that some people (not necessarily anyone who has posted here so far) consider such things as slides "old fashioned" even though it probably reflects what 19th century composers heard and even expected. The more modern Debussy actually indicated some slides in his violin sonata. Yet some of those same people strive to recreate as accurarely as they think they know, the kind of sounds heard in the Baroque and Classical periods in the name of "period performance" and "authenticity". That's not living in the past? Somehow, when it comes to performing 18th century music today, it's become chic and even politically correct to be reactionary!
BTW, Marc, Heifetz would have agreed with you that perfection is an illusion.
Slides do sound beautiful in romantic music and miniatures...Mutter and Ehnes do slide a lot... But in Bach,Mozart or Beethoveen? I agree with you with the essential Raphael, ,but this is just a small remark. Szeryng in one of his master -class, in which I attended ,was asked who in his opinion is the most remarkable violinist he heard...and he replied without hesitation: the king is David Oistrach. Oistrach himself did appreciate of course Heifetz...But the only one he wished to encounter when he first came in America was Fritz Kreisler. And it was an ardent wish of him,because he wrote several letters to the master before the first meeting could be arranged. Like Oscar Shumsky once said: "Of course, the title of the best violinist does suit well to Heifetz...but I still dream about Kreisler."
Forgot to mention that the slides of Debussy are not the slides done in the style of Heifetz and Kreisler...They are "impressionnist slides",and are done slower. Neveu and Oistrach in their remarkable recording of this particular work did understood very well how to achieve them in a more sensuous way...
The many selections of 20th century violin greats available on Youtube,give young people around the globe a chance to sample Kreisler,Heifetz,Oistrakh etc. They are the future and will determine future styles. Perhaps the old will become new again.
OK - not to beat this to death, because I need to take a break, and then I will return with a very different thread...
I didn't say that Debussy asked for "Heifetz-y" slides. We don't know that Beethoven would not have liked Heifetz' rendition. If we want to re-create the conditions of the premier of Beethoven's concerto, the violinist should perform tricks with his violin upside down bet. the first two mvts.!Szerying may have called Oistrakh 'the king' but he called Heifetz "the Emperor" Oistrakh said "there are violinists, then there is Heifetz. Heifetz is in a class by himself." All of these folks, like we, could have said and thought different things at different times and contexts.
Having gone so far afield, let me end by coming back more closely to the original point. It seems that some people were upset that he was making fun of an auditioning student. I've heard and read lots of not nice things about Heifetz, the person. But I think that here there is a good chance that he just said that as a prelude and pretext to do his shtick. I just re-read Primrose' memoire, in which he mentions that H. was known to do a "perfectly good imitation of perfectly bad playing". That was just a parlour trick of his. I can imagine H. himself at this point saying, as he did at the end of one of his last recitals (or was it the last?) "for those who liked it, thanks. For those who didn't, hope to catch you next time!"
Raphael: I am telling you this as if I was a friend... we are having a discussion about Heifetz, not about your personal feelings about him. Each time we try to discuss this matter,it is always the same. The bad ones are those who bring different opinions than what is generally accepted by his inconditional admirers. I am not an inconditional of any one... That is the fun of it. When young, I was imposed on Horowitz... I did not like his playing at all as a musician, but I can say he is a giant of the piano and I do admire him for this. Same with Heifetz. For instance, a first listening of his duo sonatas, seems to be very appealingfor the listener. But for the composer,pianist and violinist I am, it does not. Because there is no such thing as a real equal partner for Heifetz, alike Francescatti- Casadeus, Grumiaux -Haskil, Szeryng -Ingrid Habler, Oistrach-Richter, Kremer-Argerich. For instance, the playing of Heifetz of the second Brahms Sonata recorded during the mid-thirties is absolutely outstanding...not the pianist. My preference goes to Toscha Seidel and Harry Kaufman,a true partnership in my sense,not just an accompanist. Now,lets not go further, because his famous trio is a complete different matter and his Kreutzer sonata with Rubinstein,another one...
By saying and discussing these things about Heifetz, and your point is as much valuable as mine, ( both are opinions), I just believe we are sharing mutual experience and mutual appreciation about the man. I do not see him as the Emperor... In fact, I believe that Szeryng acted more like an emperor than Heifetz, who was much simple as a person.
I do not like the joke, for the reasons above mentionned,but I have great consideration for the violinist and the musician, even if I have some reticence about this or that. And I shall express them if I wish,or not...
It is nice to discuss with you Raphael...
Marc
You could be missing the point to go all out to say he is totally insensitive and rude. He is showing these students how not to audition. Criticism is hard to swallow but if you are able to do so that is what will make you better. When I was a teen doing violin making I took my work to a friendly violin maker. But he was not so friendly in his comments in my work. At that time I was not able to handle it, and I almost gave it up completely. But life put me back into violin making and now I look at that man with great respect in telling me how it was, instead of smoothing it over. Now I have very high standards for myself and am every increasing my perfection in the art of detail in my work. Was Mr. Heifetz hard on who ever he was talking about? Yes but some times we do need that to help us work harder. how many stories do we hear of were some teacher was hard on a certain student and that student went on to be a master. Some violin making schools the teachers will break the instrument if it is not satisfactory. Now I am not saying what Mr. Heifetz did was totally right. but what I am saying is take the lesson and learn. to learn to push pass those nerves and play the piece. there is a difference in trying to impress and impressing, and Mr. Heifetz is showing some points on what does not impress judges so his students can learn by taking mental notes.
Marc, Heifetz recorded the Kreutzer with Moiseiwitsch,and the Franck with Rubinstein. I`ve read that there were plans to re-record the Kreutzer with Horowitz that never materialized.
What an ugly display, sure shows a side of him I wish I had never seen. Hope the person he was having such joy in mocking loved playing more than this man's opinions.
True Ed... have the Emi box of c d references. This is a great compilation of Heifetz's recording sessions in London 1934-1937, except for the Beethoven, 1951...
I can't believe that people are actually offended by this video. Heifetz is obviously just having fun and trying to make his students laugh.
Very good video, showing his skill in replicating bad playing. At least the lampoonee was anonymous (hopefully). A couple of points : I think this was done for good reasons - to entertain the class, and more importantly to highlight how things should not be played. There was mention earlier on in the thread about the slack vetting of students for the "Heifietz" audition, and I think this demo is a case in point. You could forgive an audioning student a few slips, eg shaky bowing and the odd off-core note due to nerves, but for someone to actually consistenly play as badly as that does make you wonder....
It may seem a little bit cruel, but I think he did it just to lighten things up, without any malice. That would reinforce the Heifetz sense of humour (after those spoof recordings with "Floyd E Scharpe"). Evidently extremely funny, but at the time of re-issue a floppy vinyl record came with an early edition of the Strad, but when I tried to buy it, the mag was either sold out, or had the vinyl torn off the cover (ie stolen). I'd like to have heard that :)
What is this piece of music ? Despite the mockery, I really like the sound of it and would like to hear Heifetz playing it normally...
Cheers
Kris
What is this piece of music ? Despite the mockery, I really like the sound of it and would like to hear Heifetz playing it normally...
Cheers
Kris
Vieuxtemps 4, first movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRJQAiNu40
I actually agree that the laughter sound a little forced. I think they sincerely found it funny, but just put in an extra kick just to be polite or to satisfy him or something. I mean I also thought it was funny, but not THAT funny. They were dying in a bizzare comical orgy during the whole performance.
I also think this is done in bad taste, though everyone basically said everything there is to be said. He is precise and a very sincere ulterior motive of teaching. I'm only biased because I think teachers should be projected on by their students, not the other way around. It's funny because someone mentioned, I forgot who, that Heifetz probably did this because of that "peculiar ego" he has. Admittedly, he does have one, which I think is disadvantegeous for teaching kids who are not perfect players. I revere the profession of teaching (in any field) to be prestigious and serious work. How you affect the student is just insane.
Yeah it's funny, but honestly, wasn't that funny.
Thanks Marty
For some reason, I have never bothered to listen to anything composed by Vieuxtemps, other than the 5th concerto - but I think I will start from now on.
Cheers
Kris
Kris: get the recording of Heifetz dated 1936 or so on Naxos... It is coupled with the Rondo Capriccioso by Saint-Seans and other virtuoso pieces. It is Heifetz at his best!!! As I mentionned earlier, I do not like the imitation and I do not believe at all in it to be valuable in the teaching process.Usually,best teachers are not the best of violinists... I am the one who spoke about Heifetz ego... But his ego in that Vieuxtemps 4 on Naxos is an ego that I like a lot...
So, Heifetz couldn't have a little fun with his students? Honestly, some of you people have no sense of humor.
Marc - I agree 100% with your statement. But I still don't like his ego.
Marty - No no no, I said it myself. I thought it was funny. I just didn't think it was hilarious. I chuckled here and there, but my initial reaction was just a smile. And then add on the fact that I thought it was a poor method for teaching, I thought it was even less funny.
Liandra please get a life, Heifetz is dealing with grown ups and he is demonstrating something on a lighter note, he won't spend the whole of a master class doing that. That was a 5 minute video, the class would have lasted a whole lot longer. The way that the audience laughs has really got nothing to do with the demo and is of no consequence. Heifetz is not a comedian that has to feed on audience reaction. He has reached the top of his profession, why must he cater for easily bruised ego's, if they don't like it they can lump it. They are in the presence of an extraordinary violinist.
We are not offended at all by this video... What is offending about such a great violinist is that he left absolutely no legacy and something intellectually valuable concerning music making,interpretations, thoughts, interviews, biographie,books, alike Rubinstein, Menuhin, Milstein, Szigeti, Oistrach and so many others. I have at home interviews with Menuhin, Neveu, Kathleen Ferrier, several famous conductors,Milstein, Szeryng, Rubinstein. All of these great artists could speak freely about their career and about music. Now,mystery,nothing similar from the most famous violinist since Paganini. I do not believe that it was because he was timid ,shy or modest.. Milstein was timid,shy and modest and gave interviews...
All you have are his brief appearances in "They shall have musc", the 1950-1970 films promoting that he is the greatest violinist in the world and his masterclasses... Of course his recordings..
That is very sad... and almost tragic in a sense
The notes at the end of Augus book said there were plans by a noted writer to do a book based on interviews she had done with his friends and collegues. She died, and the project was never re-started. I would have loved to have read his observations about the musical life and personalities of the 20th century, since he knew or worked with most of the greats. But, knowing the Heifetz personality,he would have never consented to this. He was like some of the famous writers of the past,known by their writings,but otherwise quite mysterious.
It is indeed unfortunate that Heifetz never really shared enough of the details of his art. He was also, apparently, very secretive about his childhood - it must have been a difficult one in many ways. I believe he is the one who called violin playing a "perishable art." It is doubly unfortunate that this attitude of keeping things good and bad to himself really does conflict with his genuine understanding of the need to pass along his knowledge and expertise to others. We probably will never get the full picture. But without these insights, and until one has walked in his shoes and lived through both the triumphs and problems he went through, I'm not so sure I'd be too quick to condemn him for his feet of clay.
Feet of clay!! Oh my dear what is next, maybe hands of clay? And I've heard that Einstein could not count. True as Bob.
Yes, feet of clay; certainly not hands of clay. Maybe I should have said "weaknesses" or "failings" or "personality flaws" or something like that. Yes, feet of clay isn't a great metaphor.
So, how many violinists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Answer: Two. One to turn the bulb, and one to show the other one the correct fingering.
Feet of clay, and this the violinist that was chosen by fellow professionals, players of the highest rank, as the violin player of the 20th century. Not by amateurs, not by smo's like me, but people on top of their game whom he left 'cowering in his wake'. I wish I had feet of similar clay. He has no obligation to run his life and give interviews at the wim of newspaper men or any other type of men. He has given generously and abundantly of his talent. He taught and gave master classes. Just listen to his playing, no other explanation is necessary. What more do you want, Chit Chat?
That light bulb joke is the stalest and weakest joke I ever heard a hundred times. Show some originality otherwise I will think that you were involved.
i happen to think sandy is one of the wittiest gentlemen on this board, with precious insights on many older violinists, in particular, heifetz, partly due to his background in psychology, partly due to his deep respect for heifetz THE artist.
those clay feet have walked through fire...:)
Dion: it is RCA that hailed him the violinist of the century for publicity. Not fellow violinists. Come on!!!
Maybe this discussion shows by its length and passion the significance of Heifetz. I'm over sixty, and remember when the big names where H, Francescatti, Grumiaux, Oistrakh, Stern, Milstein, .... Not one of these estimable virtuosos, or anyone active now, is discussed at such length and with such passion in these discussions as Heifetz.
I will say that not one single living violinist I can think of has all of the violinistic tools developed to the level that Heifetz had Arguing about his interpretations (I like many of them, but not all) or his human failings is sort of beside the point. Paganini was the man in the 19th century, Heifetz in the 20th. Surely there will be yet another at the pinnacle, soon I hope.
Kreisler was a "King" as much as Heifetz, and David Oistrach also ... I believe that recording technology did benefit to Heifetz over Kreisler who was,during the 30's at the close of his career, and did not have the chance to record his very large concerti repertoire and sonatas...If Oistrach would have started his career during the 30's in U.S.A., instead of 1955, the portarit would be different too. Not to forget about Kogan. There was lots of money in the states invested by R.C.A. to promote the career of Heifetz. Not in U.S.S.R. and Europe who were devastated by two great wars... I am 54, and I do not remember any of my teachers ( and I had good ones) or famous musicians during the 60,s and 70,s mentionning that Heifetz was supreme over his collegues. Oistrach was considered at the time as the finest of them all, for his musicality ...
There is no such thing as the greatest violinist of the world, anyway! Do not wait for another Heifetz, there are a few of equal violinists,if not better, today on the circuit...
In my humble opinion the violin player to be anointed the king of the 21st century will have to a composer and violin player like Paganini was. Mere playing ability will no longer bring emperor status, the world has changed too much with internet, videos, analysis and international competitions every year. Teachers can now get seven year olds to play Paganini from memory and there are millions of Chinese, Japanese and other Oriental players that now get tuition of the highest order. The world has become a global village and it is almost impossible to tell the top guys apart, it comes down to personal preferences. Jane is as good as Jack now. We are waiting for the new Messiah. The double jointed virtuoso that writes a few major concertos, is in cahoots with the devil and dies at the height of his career, will be able to claim the number one spot. Who that will be, may still be waiting to be born.
It sounds like if everyone today sounds alike...
Hahn,Ehnes Mutter are as good as Heifetz. By the way, Heifetz was not a violinist composer... he made arr. of small pieces, and that is quite different. Wilhemny,Auer did the same and are not considered as violinist composers... Kreisler and Ysaïe are the very last ones on the list of that rare breed...
This video was made shortly after Heifetz took a lesson from Jack Benny on the art of playing badly when you can actually play quite well.
DISCLAIMER: the above is not true, and is meant as a joke!
(It actually is quite difficult to deliberately play incorrectly for effect, and make it sound as though you are trying to play it right, but not succeeding!) Also for your information, Jack Benny could actually play much better than his comedic violin appearances.
Dion: The Messiah only comes once and it was the young Yehudi, just in between the two great wars...
Marc a Messiah should come twice, once is not enough. Conversion takes longer.
Yehudi, wunderkind yes, immaculate conception, but a dodgy resurrection.
There once was a violin 'wunderkind' Messiah
To Einstein his play was godly without deniah,
Three B's in one night
In short pants so tight
That it almost split with a glorious cadenzia.
Dion, you should publish a book about your poetry...
Limericks are not poetry, it is a pitiful sign of roguery.
Hello, Dion: I like limericks, too (even though they may not be considered poetry). By the way, that tired old joke about violinists and lightbulbs I made a few posts back was to make a point: You can't please everyone. Thank you for your passion in illustrating that.
As to the seemingly endless controversy about Jascha Heifetz being (or not being) the violin "Messiah" following Paganini, I was going through some old files and found some articles about him (Heifetz, that is) that came out in 1975, when they released that huge collection of his recordings. So many of the points made then are things (on both sides) we're still arguing about today. I'm trying to see if I can get those articles scanned. If so, I will try to make them available to anyone on this website, if I can figure out any copyright issues.
Cheers,
Sandy
Al: Thank you so much for your kind words. I'll try my best to live up to them.
And now, speaking of "poetry," I couldn't resist a little ditty I put on another discussion some time back. Enjoy......
Twas the concert eve rehearsal, and all through the hall,
The tempo was dragging; it was down to a crawl.
The music was placed on the stands with care,
In hopes that the audience soon would be there.
In the midst of the Beethoven, I heard such a clatter,
That I rose from my stupor to see what was the matter.
From the very back aisle came the ghost of Jascha,
Striding along like a magnificent Pasha.
I noticed that when Jascha had entered the hall,
That contrary to myth, he wasn’t that tall.
The entire orchestra was frozen with fear.
The conductor looked like he could use a beer.
Jascha leapt to the podium, his Guarnerius in hand,
It was clear from the shock, that this wasn’t planned.
He pointed out the orchestra’s mistakes and such,
And he shook when he laughed (which wasn’t that much).
“The tempo is wrong; you’re playing too slow,”
He shouted, “I will show you how this thing should go.”
He demonstrated playing the Beethoven so fast,
That the notes flew by like a jet engine’s blast.
Then he said, “Now you play it at the tempo I take.”
The orchestra tried, but it was clearly a mistake.
“This is terrible,” said Jascha, “Don’t give me any flack.
I’ve had it with you; I’m going back
To be with artists whom I get to pick,
To play with Fritz and Pablo and Nick.”
And we heard him say as he disappeared out of sight,
“Have a good concert, all; though you won’t play it right.”
@Sander ;
Thanks Sander I appreciate your good humor and not taking offence at remarks that I often pass in the haste of the moment. I often bite my lip afterwards, but then I already pinned my colors to the masthead.
I have an enormous respect for people who can write poetry and make up rhyming verses like the one on your post above. I have never really made an effort to do it myself because I never thought I had the talent. My first language is Afrikaans and it has some of the most amazing poetry ever written, and I feel privileged just to enjoy it.
I am still amazed at the passion that Heifetz engenders. I read an article in the Readers Digest years ago that Heifetz was dressed up as an ordinary GI corporal during World War 2 to play in a concert given for the Russian army after they, the Russians used members from the Bolshoi ballet disguised as ordinary Russian soldiers in a concert. The American general said it was just one his troopers that has taken a liking for the violin. I have often wondered how true this story is.
Cheers
Just one for the road, in the light of the previous fun :
Heifetz knew a man named McCann
Who wrote poems that just wouldn't scan
Though perfect in rhyme, time after time,
They never got publlished ever at all which was a shame for Heifetz but especially for the poor man.
An aspiring young poet Mc Can
Had a famous violinist as a fan,
His verse were sometimes witty
And even rhymed a little bitty,
But Heifetz thought the poor man should rather do the Can-Can.
Was it the young lady on the far right by any chance? We've discussed that particular exhange before (a masterclass film topic)...
My sense is that Heifetz like to surround himself with young girls who he could boss around and who would submissively conform to him and his ways, and that he generally found men threatening.
This discussion has been archived and is no longer accepting responses.
July 6, 2006 at 05:04 AM · O - M - G !!
So what exactly is this? Obviously he's spoofing, but what's the story? And who are those in the giggling crowd, too?