Weekend vote: Franco-Belgian, Russian or other bow hold?
How do you hold your bow? And are you aware of the history behind that bow hold?
There are two bow holds that are the most common: the Franco-Belgian bow hold and the Russian bow hold. (Incidentally, I call it a bow "hold," not a "grip," because none of us should be "gripping" the bow, as that implies holding it very tightly!)
The bow-hold debate came up last Thursday at a Ray Chen master class at the Colburn School, where Ray observed that a student was using what looked like a Russian bow hold. Ray shared that he had started with a Franco-Belgian bow hold as a young player, but then switched later to a Russian bow hold. The reason: he finds it easier to stay closer to the bridge with a Russian bow hold because it's heavier, though bow changes at the frog are actually more difficult. "It's like having a heavier car," he said, more power, but with certain drawbacks.
Left, a Franco-Belgian bow hold (Pinchas Zukerman) and right, a Russian bow hold (Nathan Milstein)
Since it has been more than five years since we've checked in with everyone about this topic, I thought I'd make it this week's vote!
Here is a quick and by no means encyclopedic explanation of the two most common bow holds: The Franco-Belgian bow hold was taught be some of the 20th century's most important teachers, including Josef Gingold, Ivan Galamian and Shinichi Suzuki -- and that means that many of today's most accomplished violinists have this bow hold: Joshua Bell, Itzhak Perlman, Pinchas Zukerman are just a few. The Franco-Belgian hold involves a bent/flexible thumb, a pinkie that is curved and active, two middle fingers draped around the stick, and the pointer touching the bow stick between the middle two joints.
The Russian bow hold was very famously used by Jascha Heifetz and Nathan Milstein. It involves a bow hand that is very pronated, leaning toward the pointer finger, with a straight pinkie.
Being sort of a Galamian/Gingold "grand-student," I definitely use a Franco-Belgian bow hold. There are other kinds of bow holds -- I've heard of German and French, but I have not found a definitive description of these. Please share, if you know!
What kind of bow hold do you use? Please participate in the vote, and if your bow hold is not listed, please describe for us your bow hold.
You might also like:
- Ray Chen Master Class at TonicCon Los Angeles
- Four Exercises for Bow Hand Flexibility
- Fundamental Violin Techniques: How to Hold the Bow
- Bowing, a Personal Odyssey Through 5 Bow Holds
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Replies
I think the rough history is that -some- of Leopoldo Auer’s students played RBH (it seems suits a certain physique such as Milstein and Elman the best) Not all Russians of this generation played that way by any means but it is said nthat after Grumiaux visited Russia that Oistrakh and other leading players took on board the FB including much tighter bow hair. I think the tighneess of bow hair is one of the important aspects of this distinction which is widely ignored. I once had a lesson from Jaroslav Vanacek who was a superb reprentative of the Czech school and he immediately unscrewed the tension of my hair by about fifty percent. His awesome students didn't generally use tight hair a la FB but had high bow speed . The general trend, perhaps driven by super high tension strings, seems to be really tight hair and as lot of 'pressing' or weight to maximize power. Sometimes I think something has been lost when I remeber hearing Milstein fill a huge hall with the most resonant and unforcedc sound imaginable.
I suppose the difference between them is discernible enough to define them as separate entities but over the years I have felt more and more it is not always helpful to think so rigidly about two hand settings. The hand should be so mobile and responsive to the demands of the stick that aspects of the two often cross over. Quite a lot of players actually slip into a somewhat Russiany hold at the point whereas weaker players who adhere to strictly to some kind of image of the FB often have a tonal weakness because they allow the wrist to drop too much in this part of the bow. I try to keep a minset of seeing what shape a students hand is and then grabbing the stick.:). minor ajustments need to be made to obviously wrong placings.
I guess the Franco-Belgian is the most common, and I believe it has been the one I was taught, so I just stuck with it and didn't really question it.
Other;- I call it Pivot. The wrist stays mostly straight. It looks like F.B. when playing at the frog, looks like the Russian when playing at the tip. I don't try to teach it. Thanks for referencing my article from 2020. -jq
My hold can probably be categorized as a combination of the two, similar to what Joel Quivey described above here: almost FB near frog, but leaning toward R near tip. Seems to work for me most of the time so far.
When I was a viola student at the Royal Danish Academy of Music I played with what I many years later found out is the Russian bow hold, because that was what my teracher did.
The violin students had other teachers and they played with what I many years later found out is the Franco-Belgian bow hold.
So I had this bow hold that a lot of violin students found rather weird.
I wasn't happy with my spiccato. It wasn't good. Well I know that any beginner can make the bow bounce and therefore make spiccato to some degree.
And of course I could play spiccato to some extent, but I was not happy with it.
A good spiccato, including sautillé, is an advanced matter I would say. Anyway some years later I found a teacher who tuaght me a different bow hold, which turns out to be the Franco-Belgian bow hold. And he taught me how to play with flexible finger movements, I think it is called collé.
It was surpricingly easy to handle the bow this way, and very well explained by the teacher. I know by experince that things can be hard to explain sometimes. It only took a couple of months to make a significant improvement in my spiccato. It was fantastic.
I voted Franco-Belgian because that seems to be the way I hold my bow today.
What I have noticed is that if your children attend a summer camp and they use a Russian bow hold, it's a lot harder for the teachers there help them with strokes (or really anything bowing-related) because the mechanics of the Russian bow hold are so foreign to them.
being Belgian I feel I had no choice :-)
Franco-Belgian here. No experience with Russian. I clearly remember my teacher showing me the index finger placement on the stick, so the hand shape in the left photo looks very familiar to me. BTW, from my interactions with other players, especially in my student years, I know I'm not alone in mastering left hand technique faster than bowing technique.
I was originally taught Franco-Belgian (by a Russian teacher=)), but it has tipped to the left over the years into not quite a Russian, the pinky is still curved, but maybe halfway there.
It seems that my approach is very similar to Joel’s but I do teach it and I use the word, “pivot” as well. It’s a synthesis of aspects of Russian, Franco-Belgian and Dounis.
Buri, do you have a source on the influence that Grumiaux had on Oistrakh's hold? I heard the same thing, and I've been trying to source it for a minute. Some of the early Oistrakh (Otello Fantasy, for example) sounds really different in his tone production, with a seemingly more focused tone and narrower vibrato - I don't know how much of that could be attributed to bow hold, or how much is just the swashbuckling attitude of youth, or how much is the recording equipment, but it's interesting.
It's funny that Flesch thought that the Russian hold was the future, and that seems to have not come to pass at all.
Hi Christian,
I had a source years ago and like a moron I lost track of it. One possible suggestion is the movies about Oistrakh rather than the books. Yes, his sound radically changed. You are absolutely right.
RK ‘ It’s a synthesis of aspects of Russian, Franco-Belgian and Dounis.’ Yes, that’s the kind of flexible approach top players use :)
Cheers,
Buri
If one compares pictures (and/or videos) of David Oistrakh made before 1950 with his pictures (and/or videos) made after 1960, one could clearly see a very simple explanation why his sound was leaner in his early recordings and his vibrato became wider in his later ones. Of course “swashbuckling attitude of youth” and changes in recording equipment contributed too, but i still believe that the change in the man himself was the most significant factor.
Thanks for asking this question. I was trained to use the Franco-Belgian and never thought about it. Asking the question got me to think about how others hold their bows.
I notice that a lot of country fiddle players are using the Russian hold. Rhiannon Giddens uses the Russian with her Viola. Paul Neubauer is also using the Russian hold on his Viola. Hmmm...
Of course all of the technical aspects of playing bowed strings come with their own issues. Mine being Osteoarthritis which threatens to stop my playing completely. So far I can still play...
German bow hold seems to be a bass thing.
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October 12, 2024 at 11:56 PM · I voted "other" because I use both! I use a Franco-Belgian bow hold when I play viola (my primary instrument), and I use a Russian bow hold when I play violin. I started with Franco-Belgian, and my violin bow hold changed to Russian later because it just felt more comfortable. I wasn't sure why, but Ray Chen's explanation makes sense: the violin contact point is closer to me than I'm used to playing on viola, simply because the instrument is smaller.