V.com weekend vote: Is the audience 'aging out,' or is an older audience just a good demographic for symphonies?
In an article this week about research into the welfare of symphony musicians, a discussion followed about the greying of the symphony audience, and the related concern that the audience for classical music is dying. Then V.com member Mary Ellen Goree pointed out that this argument - that the audience has been "aging out" - has been going on for decades - but surely those grey heads in the audience 30 years ago are not all the same ones we see at concerts today.
This brought up a question for me: Is it possible that an older audience is simply an excellent demographic - and even a renewable one - for classical music and symphonic concerts?
Much attention is paid to cultivating a younger audience of symphony-goers, and this is still a good idea. But perhaps we are missing something. Is there perhaps a sizeable group of people who discover classical music a little later in life? Is there something about being a bit older that makes the experience of a symphony concert start to feel more appealing than other kinds of concerts - for example, ones that might be amplified, crowded and/or chaotic?
And if that is the case, should we be doing more to convert older people who are ripe for "conversion" to the classical experience?
I know that a number of the adult students that I've had simply came to it all a little bit later, but once they do, they are all in. They love classical music, and they love going to the symphony.
I'd like to explore everyone's thoughts on this matter. Can we accept the older contingent in our audience as a gift? Can we actually lean into it and find ways of bringing even more of the over-50 crowd to classical and symphonic concerts? Are there some consistent ways of tapping into this crowd? Or, conversely, is there still cause for alarm, if the audience tips too much in favor of an older crowd?
Please participate in the vote, and then share your thoughts in the comments.
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I am part of the old crowd. I remember: When I was a teenager people already worried about the audience disappearing because the crowd was so old. It did not happen and I don't why things should be different this time.
Wow, I have arrived! :-)
Here is a pertinent 2008 (15 years ago!) article from the Los Angeles Times: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-05-ca-newgray5-story.html
I myself have much more gray hair now than I did in 2008, just saying.
And here is a very interesting and relevant blog post from 2012. https://silpayamanant.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/aging-of-the-orchestra-audience-is-a-red-herring/
I've seen surveys suggesting that Gen Z is actually more interested in listening to symphonic music than any other named generation in history. As Mary Ellen also pointed out in the other thread, older people just happen to be the people with time and money to spare.
I also suspect that many younger adults overestimate both the cost and the formality of classical concerts. I've encountered many people who have been surprised that symphony tickets were available for under $100, and/or surprised to learn that black tie isn't expected for the audience.
Like Jake, I've noticed that audiences for chamber music are quite a bit younger than audiences for orchestral music in my area. For symphony concerts the audiences are mostly elderly, but for chamber music the average age I see in audiences is probably under 50, possibly under 40.
Our audiences have two noticeable demographics represented: older people with gray hair, and students. Of course other age groups are represented but those are what appear to me from the stage to dominate.
One of the links I posted above also made the point that younger people do attend orchestra concerts but they’re sitting upstairs in the cheap seats. The main floor with the expensive seats gives the visual impression of an elderly audience because that’s who you can see. As a personal example, I know a Northwestern grad student (age 22) who goes to Chicago Symphony concerts once or twice a month but who sits in the nosebleed section.
As long as people are willing to pay to watch classical music performed live, I don't care what age they are or what characteristics they have. We should be more concerned with the anti-cultural onslaught on music funding than with isolating and possibly alienating faithful paying customers.
When I started going to symphony orchestra concerts independently (about 19 years of age) I didn't notice the age profile of the audience, though I certainly see that now. It varies however from venue to venue, and as Jake says, some of the chamber performances and off-the-beaten-track programmes draw a younger/more varied public.
The question of aging out is part of a larger discussion of economics. Symphonies have relied on various forms of support, ticket sales being just one of them. However, it remains to be seen what the economy of future symphonies will be. Many institutions report lower ticket sales. Government subsidy is down. Large donors, both institutional and individual, are getting more difficult to find.
The response of many institutions has been radical. They appoint people who are not in touch with the organization. They make drastic changes in programming, potentially eliminating all of the audience (and musicians), cut core elements (performers), abandon a 52 week season, etc. It is not far from just shutting down. It is simply not the same institution.
Ballet, without live music. Abandoning Mozart. Not giving more concerts in the summer, when people traditionally attend music.
Take a page from popular music and sell more merchandise. Use advertising in all its forms, it works. Those are sound business practices.
I'm afraid I voted with the ageing pessimists and it isn't just a factor of the demographic. We have such good recordings of the best works that the world hardly needs to leave their comfy armchairs to experience them.
As an avid audiophile and longtime professional violinist,I would have to disagree with you Steve.Listening to high end audio,pleasurable as it is, is only a substitute for the real thing.Playing live music enhances my pleasure of sitting down to a good vinyl session( and good Scotch)but my stereo is only a facsimile of the total experience
Having a high quality photo of a missed loved one is better than nothing but is nothing compared to having them in front of you in the flesh.
My thinking entirely, Peter!
I've noticed what everyone else has - audience age is very old and very young. The younger crowd could be getting discounted tickets through orchestra programs, teachers, etc? That's how I was always able to go as a child in the 90s.
I wish it were the case that symphonic music was appealing to every age, but to be honest, I don’t think that’s the reality today. The (very) few young listeners in the audience are typically college students who are there for credit in classes or to support a teacher or a family member who’s on stage. The number of young people who go just for the sake of listening to the music is small, and certainly not enough to make any appreciable difference in ticket sales.
What makes things worse is that the people who do the programming for the concerts have tried to figure out what young listeners want to hear but have failed utterly in putting together programs that have appeal to that demographic.
If your favorite music is that of a current popular musician, why would you want to pay for a ticket to hear a different arrangement of the music played by people who don’t play that type of music (and understandably don’t want to be doing it anyway) in a venue that requires silence as you listen and smells like death when you could be attending a concert by the actual musician playing the music as you know it from listening already at home and in a setting where you’re more likely to have friends with you, you’re the exact age demographic, and the venue is set up so you can treat it like a party?
For classical music events, there is a social aspect to being seen attending, but once the lights go down, all attention is given to the stage, to the point that making any noise is extremely distracting. In contrast, for popular music events, the social aspect almost completely dominates the experience. When the music starts, it doesn’t matter if you’re listening or watching what’s going on—you can be having conversations with other people, drinking, taking pictures of yourself to gain virtual clout by showing that you are present, or just scrolling through TikTok videos on your phone.
I really and truly wish that people who love classical music would allow it to be what it is and stop trying unsuccessfully to make it “cool.” It may be silly, but I read that Merriam-Webster’s word for the year is “authentic.” If that word signifies something in the preferences of younger audiences, making classical music more authentic might actually make it more palatable.
When pop musicians play classical music as a gimmick, it doesn’t tend to go over very well with people who like classical music. Why would the reactions be any different when classical groups attempt to play pop music? It’s impressive when an artist makes thoughtful use of influences to express new musical ideas, but it falls flat when the influence is only at the surface level.
All orchestras have figured out how to cater to the people with money who are usually older. The issue is how to develop the younger, less affluent, audience that can become regulars and move to the more expensive seats as well as becoming donors as their finances improve.
One problem I see is that young musicians and their families don't tend to hang-around after their performances. Once their child/children have performed they are out the door off to the next scheduled activity. The whole idea of listening to somebody else's child (or a professional orchestra program of up to three hours) is anathema to the keep-them-busy all the time mentality.
Great points George and Rich! Will keep them in mind as we reorganize the Kitchener Waterloo Symphony( and by the way,we are not bankrupt and are in the process of reconstituting with a new board of directors).
After mulling over this subject for 2 days, I voted “good and renewable demographic” on the basis of what I’ve read and heard online for 20+ years, including v.com and YouTube.
As I’ve said before, nothing can quite top the sound of live musicians on their instruments, especially in a room with good acoustics. Still, I don’t have firsthand, in-person observations of who is and who isn’t in the audience these days, since I haven’t attended any live performances this century. I did my concert-going in the late 20th century, during and shortly after my student years. It was great back then. Later, though, the novelty wore off. To each his/her own; but I, personally, don’t feel the need, or the appetite, to continue the experience indefinitely.
This parallels something else I quit toward the end of the preceding century - namely, going out to the movies. Just as I get so much more out of a feature film at home than I ever got at the cinema - especially with today’s digital technology and home theater systems - I likewise get so much more out of a musical score at home with today’s audio and video technology - without the multiple nuisances of high ticket prices, drive time, parking, late evening hours. As a YouTube Premium subscriber, I’m not getting something for nothing.
Then, too, I’m not a night person, and I have a longstanding gut-level aversion to being on the road after dark. No, I’m not restricted to “daylight driving only.”
Steve’s comment: “We have such good recordings of the best works that the world hardly needs to leave their comfy armchairs to experience them.” Agreed. I’ve long felt that, for classical music to keep thriving, musicians will have to keep finding ways to reach more listeners where the listeners themselves are - e.g., homes, offices, cars, malls, Internet cafés - not just concert halls and recital rooms.
Agreed Jim.We do have to look for more ways to reach out.More online concerts if we ressurect.
I talked about this issue with a friend who works at the radio station, All Classical Portland here in Oregon. He said, "All you need to do is get Taylor Swift to go on Twitter, and say she loves classical music. After that, the problem will be solved."
If orchestras had really figured out how to cater to people with money, I don’t think so many of them would be belly-up. As the donors die off and aren’t replaced, funding continues to drop. I hate to paint such a dark picture, but poor ticket sales and struggles to find donors don’t suggest that there’s as much enthusiasm for symphonic music as there once was.
I think there is more enthusiasm for chamber music and individual performers, though. I do see younger listeners getting excited them.
I didn't vote because I was (am) unable to make a decision on this topic.
What I can say is that the popular relevance of classical music seems to be a thing of the past. Spike Jones, Victor Borge, Liberace, Tom Lehrer, Jack Benny... if I'm not mistaken these performers have never been replaced. OK they weren't "musicians" in the full-time sense, but they did bring the idea of classical music inside everyone's homes.
It is interesting how individual solo artists can still be a major draw for classical music.We did a fundraiser with Emmanuel Ax in November.The tickets sold out in 48 hours,and it wasn't all seniors in the audience.
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December 18, 2023 at 01:07 AM · In my experience, younger people tend to go to chamber music more than full symphony. A few weeks ago I went to the Wigmore Hall in London to see a quartet, and I was surprused at how many younger people there were in the audience. Conversely, I also went to the Barbican to see the London Symphony a few days later, and that was mostly older people. I was a little taken aback at how different it was