Hardest Violin Part Ever?
If you had to vote for the hardest violin part in any piece ever composed (solo, symphony etc.), in terms of technique, timing, phrasing etc., what work would you vote for?
Replies (50)
How'd you do that scrolling twinkle?
IT IS SUPPOSE TO BLINK!!!
Who have ever heard of s scrolling ?
I think this topic has been covered before. But here's my two cents again! I think it depends on the individual player and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Some people have a really strong technique in their left hand where their originality and musicality may be something they struggle with. Personally, for me, I think that the solo Bach works are some of the hardest pieces ever written, just because of the voicing, control, clarity, brilliance, musicianship, and everything about the works. Technically, no, they aren't as demanding as say Paganini, but the control and depth needed is something much more difficult to aquire.
LOL, Mattias! I can attest to what you say!
hm...I suppose many of Paganini's Variations pieces (Nel Cor Piu Non Mi Sento, Carnival of Venice, God Save the Queen, etc) would fall under really freakin hard.
Why doesn't someone set out to make the definitive recording of Twinkle?
I seriously think this is the hardest violin part ever having played lots of pieces. Spohr violin concerto no.17 cadenza starting on the second page....the quadruple stops (difficult motion) followed by that enoroumous Chromatic thirds to fiths to sixths to octaves scale which leads write to the orchestra. It lasts for 4 octaves!!! Its so hard!! I want to serioously pull my hair out. Not many people know this piece. I think its the top 4 or 5 hardest violin concertos for a fact, and might even make the first or second. By the way..the Paganini variations are nothing, besides nel con mi sento thing...THE CARNIVAL OF VENICE?????I hope you were joking..
I don't think they're the hardest thing ever written, but to call the Paganini variations nothing seems crazy, with all due respect
I'm taking this from my teacher because I would probably quit if I actually tried any of this music so here it goes: The Bach S&P (for the musical aspect, Schubert Fantasia, Ysaye Solo Sonatas, a good deal of Paganini, and then a concerto...(or was it etudes?)by some contemporary composer (I can't think of his name but maybe it was Ernst).
Yep it was Ernst's concerto and polyphonic etudes.
i suppose it depends on the player as well, some violinists are better at other different things than others.
weiniawski caprices are harder than paganini's. The hardest music to play, though, are sonatas by ysaye and poulenc and martinon. you can conquere all the concertos and what not, but these sonatas are a different world and i think they require something special - something that comes with experience and maturity and not just fast fingers.
ok... I've never played this piece, but my teacher just got done playing the Prokofiev Cinderella Ballet and she thought it was so hard! She showed me the music, and oh my gosh! She can play virtually anything, too. The thing about Cinderella is that there are no patterns to the notes, she said. I don't think I even want to play it... lol
the ysaye sonatas remind me of the bartok solo sonata in that respect
Erlkonig, the slow movements to Mozart concerti, Ysaye 1, Beethoven sonatas and the concerto....
Perhaps Paganiniana.
I admit I'm biased against most 20th centuary music, primarily because i detest dissonance and/or I haven't heard enough pieces that are both pleasing to the ear and difficult to interpret.
To me, I feel that anything that you can't actually sing smoothly, and paint a picture with the music is hard enough. Sections from bach, mozart and beethoven are clearly ambiguous in their interepretation, with so many ways to feel the music.
Mattias,
have YOU mastered it?
Perhaps Ernst's Variations on The Last Rose of the Summer. I don't know, technically is very hard but I have to agree with the others that once you master the technique and play this piece well there is not much else you can do. With Bach and Mozart things are different, I'm always learning how to play cleaner and how to have the perfect sound. I've never stopped studying Bach and Mozart.
I am pretty sure that it has to be a modern piece that takes the price. Something with really complex timing where everything has to be spot on.
Some of Elliot Carter´s stringquartet´s without a click track may be worth mentioning.
Don't forget the Berg Violin Concerto...
anyone tried playing any of John Cage's solo violin works? I'm not sure whether to call these difficult, but they sure are confusing.
Listened to Vengerov playing Concert Variations on "the last Rose". Sounded like there were two violins playing at the same time sometimes. I wanna see him nail those simultanous pizzacato, legato runs in the middle live.
And that pizzicato part is not even the hardest part of that composition :)
Greetings,
I agree with all the thoughts on technique. Twinkle is something I"m training for in the near future.
But, what surprises me is that there is no mention of the Beethoven concerto .
I confess to no longer being particularly convinced by focusing on hard as being the kind of technical thing we often think of, simply because violin mechanics has become so well optimised and dispersed that a kind of technicla perfection that covers intonation, speed , some bowings and a big sound is much more normal than it used to be.
But, with the payoff being a loss of individuality, rubato, interesting bowings etc in most cases, then a criteria for technical difficulty for me is which pieces are no longer sounding powerful and insightful works of art. If you like, are now too dififcult for all but a few virtuosi who take the time and are not pressured by competitions, record scompanies and the like. In this sense Beethoven, Mozart and (possibly) Bach are coming (back?) to the fore as the most difficult works.
Cheers,
Buri
Heard Kronos Quartet playing Cat O´Nine tails by John Zorn.
Completely crazy. They really show what kind of sounds you can create with just a stringquartet. I can imagine that it´s extremely hard to learn that piece.
Did they use a clicktrack for that piece?
Alex are you sure you meant Violin Concerto no.17?
I thought he only composed 15?
Hi everyone!i would like to say that EVERYTHING is difficult before it becomes easy,but if you ask for concertos it must be the Beethoven and for the moore solo-wize,it must be the Bartok solo-sonata just because its complex structure with awkward runs,like runs in 5ths.I also would like to mention the Heifetz-statement:"anyone capable of delivering a decent-sounding Kreutzer-etude is a pretty damn good violinist"..maybe there you have it all?
be well and ceep focus!
jorgen
in the red violin caprices, 5th Variation: Presto,there is a chromatic run in fifths... I find it quite fun!
as my teacher said "u cant criticize any piece unless u've perfected it" and i dont think anyone can ever really perfect a piece so therefore, no1 should be allowed to criticize =P
ahh but thats boring, we violinists love to critize pieces.
true that owen.
Greetings,
Jorgen, thanks for putting the Beethoven back at the top. All these young dervishes were beginning to cause me to question my sanity.
Last night I watched the DVD of Kogan playing this concerto and the absolute perfection of quality of each note and its position in the whole was so astonishing I almost gave up prunes. Also interested to see that he was making extensive use of the high right hand index finger erroneously attributed to the genius of Galamian.
Cheers,
Buri
Dear Stephen,i totally agree with you.Also check out his astonishing use and movements of his left thumb!an often forgotten aspect of violin-tecnique that i think is one reason to his super-ficial command on the violin.
Igor Oistrakh,which has a tremndeous facility,also thought that the Beethoven is the hardest concerto and i am sure more giants of the violin would agree with him.
cheers, jorgen
oistrakh was very wise, obviously a by-product of his rigorous prune consumption
Greetings,
Owen, it must have been hard to follow in the footsteps of such a father when you are so gifted yourself...
The point Jorgen raises about left hand thumb is rather important I think so I shall start a thread on it and see what comes up...
Cheers,
Buri
By the way, How do you guys start a discussion board question for all others to respond...Greatly apreciated +++)
+++)
go to list of discussion topics, at top it says something along the lines of
"have something to say, share it, submit it, something"
click that link.
Hello, all!
I just listened to Paganini's 3rd and 4th concerti. Pretty rocky stuff in those later concerti, especially the end of the 3rd movement "Polacca" in the 3rd concerto. Erno Rosza just doesn't pull it off too well...
Also, there some pretty difficult quadruple stopping action in some of Vieuxtemps' earlier concerti. Nasty bowing techniques. If you can get a recording of them (they're not often recorded) I'd reccomend it. Too bad you don't hear more Vieuxtemps nowadays...
Oh, and the Ysaye sonatas. No.3, "Ballade"? That's hard too...
I'm planning on doing Vieuxtemps no.2 whats the difficulty of this concerto?
The first movement of the Vieuxtemps No.2 is very beautiful, and has some nice lyrical moments, but it's also very technical. There's lots of doublestops, including some tenths thrown in as well. There's some arps that go pretty high, too. You'll love this movement, though. It's sweet. And it has the typical Vieuxtemps style quad-stop passage.
The first movement bleeds right into the second, and is a great, mushy Vieuxtemps Andante. It's really gorgeous, so get your rubato on. It's got enough technique to be a stand-alone audition piece also.
The 3rd movement, the rondo, isn't as technically demanding as the first movement, but it does have a short cadenza, with a few chromatic runs. The rondo also has some high-register stuff happening sometimes. Doublestops, some fun chords, some octave work near the end.
Man, now I want to go play it myself...Next time I'm down at the music library, I'ma pick it up...
I went to our music library and we don't have it!!! I have to actually buy it, and I don't know where to find it!!!
Thanks plenty owen...
For me, the hardest part ever is the g# to b tenth near the end of the first movement of the Brahms Concerto. As much as I've tried, it always sounds a bit awkward.
I found Vieuxtemps no.2!!!! And it's easier than what I expected...
mariam,
the phrase "a bit awkard" could be used to sum up the whole concerto
Bach's Solo Sonatas and Partitas, without a doubt. After three centuries of technical innovation and musical reinvention, this collection is the most difficult to master and understand musically. I know not one violinist who is absolutely content with their grasp of the Bach solos. All seem to stand far from their desired mastery, unlike other pieces they've studied and performed.
If you can perform Bach with perfect technique, grace, and maturity, you've truly accomplished something that few ever realize.
Eric
I listened to the Ysaye sonatas in toto yesterday for the first time (Kavakos). Maybe they deserve a mention
happy birthday is pretty hard.
Anyone try the second violin part to O Canada in d flat major, standing up? Now there's a challenge...
Greeetings,
the biggest larf I ever had was when in the last one minute of a rehearsal for a major concert at College Uncle Norman (of the Del Mar branch of the Mafia) decided to check if we could play God Save the Queen (from memory of course), which to his generation was so de rigeur it never crossed his mind to doubt that we could.
We couldn"t.
Hah!
Cheers,
Buri
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May 3, 2004 at 06:10 AM · Twinkle.
There are not a piece in the entire history of the violin that so many have tried and so few perfected.
Probably 75% of all violinist that are assigned by a good teacher to practise and perfect Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Paganini, Szymanowski or whatever plays it near perfect technically.
At the most 0,5% of all the violinsts ever assigned to learn and perfect Twinkle does so.
So once again.