How much do the supervirtuosos practice?
How much do the supervirtuosos practice on a daily basis?
I know that Vengerov stated that he practiced 8 hours a day from the age of 5-20 but a lot less these days
Perlman stated that more then 4 hours a day is useless so we can assume that he never practiced more then 4 hours a day,
Hilary Hahn said that she practise as little as possible (often less then an hour a day these days) since living a social life is very important for her.
I don´t if thery are entirey honest though
Replies (100)
Andreas... I know you have this huge crush on Hilary but she's not exactly social in the sense that most people her age are social.
She practiced insanely as a young person... many many hours. If she doesn't practice so much these days it's only because her schedule is so busy that she simply wouldn't have the time. Like someone else said, most of them got their practicing in before they started touring. Their muscle memory is now quite reliable.
When I managed some of the best artists, most of them don't admit to how hard they work because of the enormous pressures of the public, if there is an "off-performance".
Of course, everyone is different in their approaches. I know for a fact that Midori and Kyung-Wha Chung practices as much as 8-10 hrs/day when not touring. When touring, of course it is much difficult. After my masterclass lesson with Midori a few years ago, she told me that "practicing is going to work for her". Whereas most people go to the office and work long hours, she goes to the practice studio and works long hours. The principles are the same, it's just a different environment.
I don't think Ms. Chung is practicing much anymore since she retired from injury.
Also, I've been told by a number of people that it's quite common to lie about practicing.. it's impressive to play like that and make people believe you don't practice. This year I heard a teacher say (one who has taught some of these people), that it's total BS that "they" don't practice. They all practice... and, if someone like Midori practices, with that kind of technique, then I think the lot of them definately practice at least a few hours a day. Not to mention the king of them all, Heifetz, practiced 3 hours a day, always. Regardless of how much any of them practices, you know it's very efficient and smart practicing.
Simple answer: it all depends on the person. Some practice more, some less. Peoples' brains work in different ways and so different amounts of practicing at a time will be effective for different people.
That said, there's a quote from Leopold Auer that I'm rather fond of: "Practice three hours a day if you are any good, four if you are a little stupid. If you need more than that, stop. You should find another line of work." :-)
Auer might have said that but I think most soloists, including Heifetz, exceeded that practice time. In Auer's time, you probably had half the repertoire they do now, and not even a 3rd of the engagements, not to mention far less travel. Most of the really good violinists I know are practicing in excess of 5 hours.
"She practiced insanely as a young person... many many hours. If she doesn't practice so much these days it's only because her schedule is so busy that she simply wouldn't have the time. Like someone else said, most of them got their practicing in before they started touring. Their muscle memory is now quite reliable."
Have you read her tour journal on her official site?
I thought she practiced fingerings and intonation for hours a day even when she is on tour but it seems like she doesn´t.
She has got many other interests as well and is more social then most supervirtuosos indeed.
Andreas... how many "supervirtuosos" do you know?
In any case, I've heard different from your impressions of talking to her for 15 seconds. In any case, it isn't important. I just wouldn't be fooled into thinking that many of these people live regular lives, going out often etc... it's a lonely life like most will tell you. Hilary Hahn was at encore this summer and she told us that most of her time is spent totally alone, and quite a few soloists will tell you the same.
Andreas, she practices hours a day, like her journal says, but she told you she didn't practice so she could have a social life just to try and get you to ask her out. Same reason she giggled when you blew in her ear. Because like Pieter says, she spends most of her time alone. You are a lucky guy! Maybe when she told them at Encore she spent most of her time totally alone she was trying to get anybody to ask her out. Strange. I think she's very hot. All she has to do is come over and I'll take her to a movie. What the heck. I mean if it's ok with you. I don't want to like move in on your turf.
I think it´s strange how Hilary can have time for all the games she talks about on http://www.hilaryhahn.com/favorites/fav_06.shtml and on various pages in her journal if she is practising that much
Ps: I know she had a boyfriend a while ago but he I don´t think he is travelling with her and I am not sure if they are together still
if you practice for 6 hours a day, that still leaves 18 hours to play games. Even if you take away 8 hours for sleep, that's still 10 hours to be playing games and having a life...
"i refuse to let anyone outwork me. that's the reason i log so much time on the practice range. besides, hard work is the only way to maintain a competitive edge, and i enjoy the process. the key, though, is to practice with a purpose."
opps, that is from tiger woods.
What matters is how much you practice.
What matters is how effectively you practice. Five hours of practicing your mistakes only programs you more likely to play them again on the next try.
Ben's so right...if one practices for six hours, there are other hours in the day. It is difficult, nevertheless, to really think of the day in those terms...
...speaking of which, I woke at 8:00am, it's now 10:15am. Time to start practicing...
This is all so disappointing... I was hoping to hear that "they" don't practice at all, and that it's all just inspiration and raw talent then I could justify my practicing 30 minutes a day whether I need it or not...
Andreas, of course she's got a boyfriend of some kind. They aren't married so who cares. Sometimes it doesn't matter if they're married either. Get in there and do what a man has to do.
Don't hurt yourself with all that chest beating!
LOL
Andreas, if you do it right you can't lose. Just don't drop the ball. If that won't break through that line, then she wasn't worth it in the first place and all you did was waste a couple of plays. Now get in the game.
Quick, pass the compazine. I'm gonna be ill.
I didn't say it was going to be easy.
I'm thinking back to that "greatest violinist registered on v.com?" thread...all we need now is for Hilary to log on and be all like "Whaaa...?"
...but then if one goes to school you have to subtract another seven to ten hours.
I personally think that most people either admit to practicing a lot more or less than the 'norm'. So if you practice two-three hours a day, you're going to adjust that time and say seven or one. Being normal just isn't the thing these days. So if your average, you're going to want to adjust that. Now. ;)
"Andreas, of course she's got a boyfriend of some kind. They aren't married so who cares. Sometimes it doesn't matter if they're married either. Get in there and do what a man has to do."
I leave that to you. If I lived where she lives I would have asked her out or something.
Talk to her after a show if you haven´t already I was surprised about how much time she actually spent on signing records and talking to fans
Maybe she just thinks of you as a fan. That's equivalent to a waitress originally thinking of you as a guy at her table. I don't see a problem.
Are you serious? You would have asked her out??
like, omg
At least if I was in Andreas' position I would. What's the worst that could happen? Why should I be intimidated? Waitress, what's your name? Let me talk to you a second...
somehow I'd imagine Hilary wouldn't be attracted to some guy who discusses on the internet how obsessed he is with her... she smells good... are you Hannibal Lecter?
Jeeze, what a thing to say to somebody. He hasn't done anything like that.
Have you read his posts? They're about everything except her violin playing... if I were her I'd have a restraining order.
He talks about how nice she is. He mentioned how nice she smelled. If you think it means somebody needs a restraining order, I don't know what to say :)
Jim... there's line between being complementary and being kind of obsessive. He's definately obsessed.
Well, some people are nuts. I'll grant you that.
I think his nuts may be the problem.
If you mean he's got one and needs two, I agree.
!!!
Where has this gone!?!
I'm embarrassed.
Linda--it has gone straight into the toilet--too many people thinking with the wrong head--and in public no less!
it's hard to think this is a public forum when you're sitting in your bedroom...
*smuffled laughter*
Everything is so public with celebrities.
I understand H G Wells was quite a ladies' man, lots of notches on his pistil. When asked why she found him so interesting, more than one woman indicated that he had an unusually pleasant smell.
Let's raise a glass to the subtle pheromones, folks.
Andreas, put down your bow and get over to the stage door. Bring flowers, lots of flowers. And do not sweat profusely.
She speaks German. Say "Ich liebe dich."
And watch out for excess salivation. Deutsch is not a romance language.
I realize he's a bassist, but he's a virtuoso...Francois Rabbath has been at my school this week for a mini-residency...it's been so inspiring. His formula: Scale cycles without stopping for 2 hours straight (not even a minute stopping...to build endurance, he says); doing this everyday for 6 years will turn you into a virtuoso.
He also mentioned that he hadn't practiced the music for his recital since two months ago, but I guess that's what happens when you're old and you know them all.
Could anybody do that for six years? He should make it five.
Scales for 2 hours? I would rather play through all of Rode.
how much does Gil Shaham practice?
Here's a thought experiment: add up all the things you're practicing right now. Now add up all the really tough spots that need work. Divide by the amount of time you have--say 4 hours.
When I've done this, I've realized that the amount of ACTUAL time I have to work on any one spot is absolutely miniscule, like just a couple of minutes or even seconds--and that's with leaving out the easy stuff. Now multiply by scales. etudes. Paganini. Bach. Concertos. Showpieces. Orchestral excerpts. All the material we should all be working on daily. And our time evaporates.
It's hard to imagine getting anywhere on less than 5-6 hours a day.
"It's hard to imagine getting anywhere on less than 5-6 hours a day."
Perlman said in an interview that more then 4 hours a day was useless.
He also claimed that he rarely practised for more the 2 hours daily I believe
Anyone heard that too?
andreas... people are creative with what they say.
I've heard different things about Mr. Pearlman, ranging for the 4 hours he describes to like 14 hours (which has to really be pushing it). He'd sit there for many hours after he'd done his real practice, improvizing and reading through other stuff. His highly individual technique and style would suggest that he probably did a lot of mucking around which might not be considered practice, but whatever. Remember that he couldn't walk or run like the other children so I suspect he spent more time indoors than just 4 hours... in any case, who cares... I love listening to him.
Maeva wrote "His formula: Scale cycles without stopping for 2 hours straight (not even a minute stopping...to build endurance, he says); doing this everyday for 6 years will turn you into a virtuoso."
Actually there is no guarantee scales will make you a virtuoso. If you play scales 2 hours a day out of tune, not in time, and with uneven bowing it will be counterproductive. It is kind of like lifting weights with the wrong form/posture. I know a rather well known violinist who plays scales all the time, but this person plays quite out of tune. If you practice scales carefully with good intonation they can be very beneficial.
Greetings,
thanks Nate for pointing out the hideous dangers of more is better. A huge of players, even to an advanced level have flaws that can be pracitced in quite nciely during this kind of mind numbing regime.
I know of only one (reasonably) well established superviruouso who practices 14 hours a day (truthfully) and his playign is musiclaly and stylistically deadened to a marked degree.
Part of the problem lies with something in the langugae used for me. Its as though the terminology of supervirtuouso has taken a sback to a time when tehcnique was the reason to be.
But if you look at today`s `great` violinist they are all super technicians and musicians as one entity. Look at a player like Zimmerman. He can do anything he wants on the violin and make it look easy but he is incredibly musically sensitive. I doubt if he practices that many hours a day. Fir me, what distinguishes these elite from the rest is that its all happening inside them all the time. The number of hours spent on the violin is representative only of a small part of the process of growing as an artist and technician. Players like Mutter and Mullova have gone on record about how pieces sort themselves out in thier minds while they are ding other things. Tezlaff I suspect is the same. he pracitces one or tweo hours a dya at most. What just about all these people have in common is the huge amount of -correct- pracitcve they did in their formative years.
Cheers,
Buri
Incidentally , Midori says she @practice on average four or five hours a day.
how much does Gil Shaham practice?
As much as he needs to...
or sometimes not...
The super virtuosos know how to practice. They've perfected that part of their craft. They know how to get things done in the least amount of time. I would imagine that the vast majority of their time is spent learning and perfecting repertoire.
"The super virtuosos know how to practice. They've perfected that part of their craft. They know how to get things done in the least amount of time.
I think that is very well said--I've spent the first couple or so years learning how to practice. I feel like I'm 'getting' there, but it's taken me a while; and, I've some ways to go I think--no, Im sure.
One of my big obstacles, is that I tend to want every song I've ever played in my memory forever; and waste time reviewing a lot, and impulsively playing whatever lands on my strings(more so in the more distant past).
While this shows where I've improved, I can't help but to get a feeling that the more serious add their repertoire, and then 'sort of' relearn it as needed. Of course they have their technique in place, which I still do not.
This approach comes from learning somewhat serious music on piano measure by measure.
Naturally, being really good means you can learn complicated things quickly, which is easy to forget. My best guesstimate about them would be half a day for two or three weeks to learn a new 45 minute concerto, and if all you have to play is pieces you learned ten years ago and are using the sheet music, maybe no practice at all. I've seen the first thing from a distance, unfortunately not clearly enough to understand it, or experience it vicariously, and I neglected to ask many questions. But really the final word on it is probably just that it comes from being really good.
"Being really good naturally"
oh well--I can shoot a squirrel at 50 yards. ;).
But, and another big but, it's worth the effort.
I meant "Being good naturally means" not "Being good naturally."
But your shooting story reminds me when I was about 10 I could do some phenomenal shooting and with no practice.
Your ancestors practiced.
Maybe ancient ancestors. I remember being embarassed by my Dad's shooting and being smart enough not to say anything.
Obviously, each individual's rate of learning something new is different. I vividly remember that in 1995, Kyung-Wha Chung told me that it took her 10 years of practice with pianist Krystian Zimerman in the Strauss and Respighi Violin Sonatas, before BOTH of them were comfortable recording it for Deutsche Grammophone.
Of course, there are musicians like pianist Garrick Ohlssohn who was learning the Schubert B flat Piano Sonata and Brahms Variations on a Theme by Handel while he was touring and performed those pieces two weeks later.
Finally, remember there was a period where Yo-Yo Ma released so many new cd's on Sony Classical so frequently that I always wondered, how did this guy learn new repertoire so quickly? (This was the period in the late 80's when the HUSH album with Bobby McFerrin, and others all came out).
Also in response to some inappropriate gossip of Ms. Hahn in these posting, I can see why many of the artists are not willing to get close to their audiences on a personal level.
Before one makes such inappropriate remarks, think how you'd feel if you were the "star" and some weirdos on the internet made comments like that about you.
I know so many of the artists would like to get closer to their audiences (who wouldn't? It's about business and relationship building). But many decided to keep a barrier between their private and public lives because of people trying to bring them down.
"I know so many of the artists would like to get closer to their audiences (who wouldn't? It's about business and relationship building). But many decided to keep a barrier between their private and public lives because of people trying to bring them down. "
The best thing about Hilary is that she actually takes the time to talk to people for 2 or 3 minutes after a signing session (if there are like 3-4 persons left or so)How many of the violinstars will actually do that?
It´s possible that she was just in the mood for it in Gothenburg though
2 or 3 minutes isn't very long...120 seconds of chatting and you're ready to propose marriage??
to know how much a star is still practicing daily is not as revealing since he/she already has had million of hours logged in. and because of where they are, it is quite safe to assume those hours are quality hours, or at least much more so than the average players.
instead of knowing how much they each practice daily, a more useful thing to examine is how they practice, thus how they use their time, the very limited resource. even on that, i think it is a very individual thing, something that is built over time with better habits, better routines and personal traits.
what will be educational to see is to put a star to the test: how does he/she size up a new piece... in what amount of time to what level of understanding and performance. what are the smart moves and what is the rationale behind the smart moves,,,how do they avoid the dumb ones...
that will be much more educational than a star playing a piece to a wow level mostly because she/he has been on it for over 30 years...
But Maura...
She has this amazing social life, she hardly practices, she is so interesting and funny! She smells like petunias I wonder if she has a boyfriend she is the best in the galaxy!!!!!! o my god o my god o my god!!!!!!!1
Gee, I'd like it if weirdos on the internet made positive comments about my smell. In person would be even better. So long as they were attractive weirdos with the correct gender preferences.
Anyway, while I can no longer see a squirrel at 50 yards, I don't think approaching a violin star with a fistful of dead rodents would get me very far, romantically. But one never knows.
There are all kinds of weird. One kind is thinking other peoples' innocent statements are weird. :)
Is it really necessary to beat someone into a bloody pulp for thinking that Hilary Hahn is attractive?
He can think whatever he wants, it's the fact that he's borderline obsessing over her on a public internet forum that some of us object to.
Seriously, all my music-nerd friends (and, um, myself) have had crushes on famous musicians at one point or another, and there's nothing wrong with that--just keep it to yourself, please?
I once had a "crush" on a sexy actress. Now she's my age and almost looks it after how many face lists, etc. Ugggh.
Mara, since you acknowledge it happens :) Speaking generally, some people hold their cards close, and others will just say anything among friends. The only thing that gives me slight pause is the way he's not defending himself. But who knows.
If he's up to it, which would require him to be a pretty interesting guy, it might become an actual friendship of some kind. It would be her decision. It happens, I guarooontee. Better than prefering a fantasy. Except in the case of you and Bartok :)
While he's not defending himself, he has the stones to continue posting, which indicates either strength of character or a possible language problem. Gotta respect that.
Also the young romantics may not be used to bandying words with the old and crusty. Or who knows, some vestigial self-respect may be in play.
^ Excellent !
"which indicates either strength of character or a possible language problem."
I was thinking either that, or it indicates Karl Childers from Slingblade. We'll let her decide. That's her task.
"young romantics may not be used to bandying words with the old and crusty"
She's coming up on 30. I hope he's not a kid.
Greetings,
Ray, was that Sofia Loren or Ann Bancroft?
Cheers,
Buri
I was thinking about this. Is it poetic justice when they put the halloween mask on? But what about when it isn't? Is that a tragedy or is it all in the eye of the beholder? Is it simply entropy in an existential universe? Dissipative energy use of a thermodynamic system (dQ / T = dS)? I feel a limerick coming on.
You're making my head hurt!
I think it has to do with what they are playing on tour. For instance Hilary is now playing the Schoenberg concerto which was new to her rep list. I would imagine she would spend more time practicing it versus if she was playing Mendelssohn or Bach - pieces that are hallmarks of a supervirtuoso.
Supervirtuosos do not need to practice. They probably don't have much that they need to learn. I imagine that they just need to maintain their technique.
I am curious though. What is a supervirtuoso? Who is a supervirtuoso?
"What is a supervirtuoso? Who is a supervirtuoso? "
Good point
The apr. 20 greatest classical violinplayers in the world (from a technical standpoint) maybe.
The ones that are considered by most violinplayers to belong among the greatest would propably be the ones most suited for the top 20 list but there are propably violinplayers out there that very few people have heard that may belong in this list as well
haha you guys are hilarious.
Reading the views of many greats: Auer, Heifetz, Powell,..., I come away with the feeling that variety is the rule rather than anything else.
My own uninitiated view earlier was that of some standard course that pounds technique into the students hands and instrument. But then I started encountering those who saw things somewhat differently. I see piano as a little more standardized than violin, but I'm not sure to what extent.
But super virtuoso? hmm. One is either coming from the Sevick/technique school or Auer/interpretation school it seems, not underestimating the importance of technique in either. The truth is probably an equally wide variety somewhere in between; and, not really one or the other approach but a mixture to most.
I go through both in an ordinary month, or sometimes even week. One night I'll be focusing on the shape and vitality of the music, the next it's back to raw basics and so on. Some nights, I'll play my heart out for hours, others for just a couple hours. Some nights, I'll get on an etude kick and literally work my hands to the bones--hopefully in a good way. And other nights, I'll have a more balanced approach mixing everything.
Obviously, I'm 'not' a super virtuoso though. But after forty years making music, I do allow my instinct to gently lead me through my development at this point--though I'm pretty intense discipline wise.
So, my guess is that most people trying to get better have just persistence as their defining quality, however it pans out. Sort of like a terraced hill, where one reaches levels and then other challenges or something, seems right.
Someone at Medowmount from Perman's time there told me that he was the first violinist you'd hear in the mornings and the last one at night so I'm not so sure he practiced 4 hours or less a day... Heifetz practiced many hours growing up and Ricci has stories about being locked up in a room and made to practice... Anything worth doing takes a long time and doing it well just increases its level of care and time... It seems to me that in America these days we are living in a society where everyone wants the rewards without the hard work... don't be fooled in thinking that people of great skill are just born with it... even a great genius has to labor exensively... Einstein worked very hard and Bell made hundreds of mistakes while trying to accomplish what he knew he would... If you want to play well there is only one way... practice and it is directly linked to how you play... this is a silly blog...
Practice.
Sometimes I think it is more about what you do in your head than on the instrument.
gc
Maybe Perlman meant to say not to practise more than 4 hours straight. Did he say that you can't have three sessions of 4-hour practice in a single day?
I practiced Dounis for three hours straight today...it was awesome...
two cents: From my informal surveys, pros agree that the bulk of their time is rehearsal not practice as the novice thinks of it. I am not sure of the fine distinctions, but they implied their practice is "applied" to real shows vs. just figuring out techniques.
A lot of good - and entertaining posts! I agree with those who've said that it's got to be different for different people, and different for the same people in different situations (e.g. on tour, where it's hard to practice too much, and it shouldn't be necessary for that tour's repertoire, given proper prior preparation.) The time in one's life can change things, too. I read that Silverstein and Rosand compared notes, and agreed that they practiced more nowadays than when they were younger, to keep their older fingers moving. They didn't put a hour number to it, though. Having heard recitals from both of them recently, I can attest that whatever they're doing is working!
My old teacher told me a great story about his teacher, Sergiu Luca, practicing in a taxi once before a concert. (He was in Boston, had to get to New York, it had snowed and planes were grounded, so he hailed a cab and told the driver to take him to New York, and practiced in the back seat for all four hours of the trip!)
Lucky cab driver...
I've always seen that the younger they are, the more hours of personal practice they put in.. as they get older they start to fall into routines with rehearsals and have less time for personal practicing... Delay encouraged the 5 hour practice day (includes 4 hours of private work and 1 hour of chamber/orchestral music).
I've just had Guitarist RObin Hill post a guest blog on my site - musicpracticetips.com where he mentions that he generally does a minimum of 5 hours practice each day, no more than an hour at a time, and also spends about half of it on technical work. He also mentions that it's not about the quantity but the quality.
My teachers always told me that quality over quanity is more important. and its very true too. but its much more pain than just going through what you want to play. kind of like eating your fruits and vegtables. :)
No Playstation 3 for you until you finish your fruits and vegetables, Miss Brooke!
"My teachers always told me that quanity over quality is more important"
I hope you meant quality over quantity?
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September 18, 2007 at 12:50 AM · it would all depend on the situation, but you must remember that they've probably done plenty of hours before hand, so all they really need to do to practice is to keep their skills up, and learn new music when the occasion calls for it. Plus it's also a lot to do with practicing efficiently, so that they can get as much done in as little time as possible.