Long slurs: tips for practising slurred runs in e.g. Bach

July 29, 2007 at 12:39 AM · Practice very slowly with a metronome on. Pay close attention to string cross and bow division. Gradually speed up. If uneven happens again, go back to slower tempo to see where the problem is.

August 4, 2007 at 12:34 AM · There are many ways to improve evenness, but before even thinking about your practice technique, have you had your fingerboard looked at by a really good violin craftsman lately?

If it has grooves or corrugation where your fingers hit the strings, you could be fighting a losing battle. Also, you may not know that the fingerboard has a complex lengthwise curve in addition to the obvious one across the strings. If the longwise curve is off, it can cause you to have to put ever changing pressure on the strings to make them respond to the bow. Have it checked. If it is OK, or when it is, write again if you are still having trouble.

BJ Berman

August 4, 2007 at 12:55 AM · Practicing slurred runs in rhythms (or any passagework, for that matter) can be of great benefit too. Take a run of sixteenths, and break them down into 4-note groups. Then practice them slowly in a dotted rhythm, changing the placement of the dotted note each time, like this:

long-short-short-short

short-long-short-short

short-short-long-short

short-short-short-long

Gradually increase the tempo of the rhythm.

Also, paying close attention to string crossings can help. When practicing the runs, practice slowly and stop on the note both before and after a string crossing, and exaggerate the motion of the crossing with your bow.

Putting these two exercises together can help smooth out a whole bunch of uneven notes, and with the concentration it takes to keep the rhythms and the string crossings straight, can help you focus more intently on the passage itself.

August 4, 2007 at 01:08 AM · dotted rhythms and string crossings is a great idea.

also, it helps to think of LIFTING your fingers as opposed to putting them down on the string. the lighter the fingers, the easier it is to play fast!

August 4, 2007 at 05:30 AM · I'd also suggest starting to practice your scales in longer groups of notes.

Almost two years ago, I was having huge issues with this, and when my teacher in Spain had me practice my three octave scales separately, in 2's, 3's, 6's, and then had me try to do everything ascending in one stroke and everything descending in the next stroke.

Focusing on speed & cleanliness of the left hand, and distribution of the right hand were things I had to think really hard about.

Also string crossings!

You might want to try Kreutzer 2...whole bow for 1 note...then 2 notes in a whole bow, then 3+1, then 1+3, then 4, etc., etc.

Zuckerman usually uses that exercise for a lot of things, and used it as a basis for two masterclasses he did at my college... it works great because it has things like string crossings incorporated that make this kind of exercise REALLY useful (versus only sticking to scales, where the string crossings aren't as demanding).

August 4, 2007 at 10:32 PM · Thanks all.

Michael - you say break the 16 into groups of 4 then dotted rhythm, but do you mean SLURRED or separate bows?

Jessie - I'm trying the Kreutzer 2 already and, as my violinist/violist friend (he seems to have mastered both somehow) said it would, it's driving me crazy!! The bowing you mention isn't one of the suggested ones is it? I mean, if it is, which numbers are you referring to?

Thanks again,

Russell.

October 12, 2007 at 05:37 PM · first you have to make sure that you have the correct hand position with all your fingers high and curved over the fingerboard. there is no reason they should be straight for normal passage work. my teacher told me about the acceleration method to work on Shcradiek.

there are five rythems with two exra ones in case. they are all standard 8th notes that are gouped, and for me it is best started at quarter=50

1. eighth eighth sixteenth sixteenth

2. eighth sixteenth sixteenth eighth

3. sixteenth sixteenth eighth eighth

4. eighth triplet

5. triplet eighth

5a. eighth dotted sixteenth

5b. dotted sixteenth eighth

these work because as you go along you group each of the notes together and then by threes. after you have finished with quarter= 50, you go on to 55... and at the end of each tempo you are fast enough to easily do the next tempo, but dont skip anything or it will be worthless. and even though your notes are slurred, practice them individually and then rebuild them to the speed you need. AFTER you have gotten it up to tempo in seperates..trust me!!!

October 12, 2007 at 06:38 PM · This is a very cool discussion. I can at least start doing the scales in multiples, but look forward to understanding the dotted notes and other skill-building techniques too!.

October 12, 2007 at 11:51 PM · This is indeed a cool discussion about technique, but where and why are you playing 16+ note slurs in Bach's 1st cello suite in the first place?

October 13, 2007 at 03:13 AM · I don't know if that bowing is one of the options they give you. I don't use many of those bowings actually, or at least my teacher doesn't have me do them, he has me do different ones. Mostly I use it for spicatto and for arm planes.

That's another thing to consider, if you're trying to get a more fluid legato in runs. Don' think of playing on 4 strings- you shouldn't be thinking "Okay, I'll play four notes on the E string, then I move my arm to get onto the A string". Think of your arm having three planes to play on- the E/A string, the A/D string, and the D/G string. Obviously, you can't play both strings at once when doing the run, but you should imagine playing on the left side of your E string and then the right side of your A string, so that your arm doesn't have to actually move to change strings. Practicing it that way will help achieve a legato line.

I suggest also practicing in rhythms with that as well. Sometimes I'll even practice the runs so that when I change strings, I actually play a double stop, that often works. Once you get used to practicing in different ways, then you can combine them.

October 13, 2007 at 07:06 AM · Greetings,

anopther thing I would do perhaps before rythms even is to find out exactly where the problem is using the fllwing technique:

play the firts note and stop.

Play 1 and 2. stop.

Play 1, 2 and 3. stop.

This way you build up the run without overloading the brain and can get a very clear idea of wher the problem is.

I also strongly recommend you pracitce slurred passges detache and vice versa.

LIkewise, work on open strings so that you know exactly where the bow is going.

Ditto, suppose the run is a scale passage strating on the g string and ending on the e: start normally bowing on the g string, but as the left hand goes across the finger board keep the bow runnning on the g string. Or start the left hand as normal on the g string but bow on the e string. Though this exercise independnce of the hands is promoted and much greater technical secrity can be achieved,

Cheers,

Buri

October 13, 2007 at 07:52 AM · To help stop running out of bow, move your bow closer to the bridge - you'll find you can sustain a bow stroke far longer in this way. Also remember to save the bow at the beginning of the stroke - up or down - leaving you more at the other, harder to control end.

Cheers

October 15, 2007 at 08:46 PM · Bow distribution exercises!

Three octave scale, major or minor, with 24 notes.

The tough part is making sure that you use the *same consistent bow speed* for all of the following: play your scale 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, and 24 notes per whole bow. Find a bow speed where the tone is sustained and full (not to fast, not too slow :).

When that works, try changing the bow speed. Change the point of contact. Try using the mixed bowings mentioned in posts above in a certain portion of the bow (upper half, middle, lower half, frog, tip).

October 16, 2007 at 06:00 AM · Russ,

I had to write to you when I saw you were in Bath. That is a beautiful city and the Mendips are indelibly in my mind as I used to teach at the Wells Cathedral School and then commute on the 125s to London every week to teach at the Guildhall School of Music & Drama –– good memories:-) This was in the mid-late ‘70’s.

To business: The tips above are great and I would add that you should also take the sequence as you cross the strings by playing the 1st finger on the next string ahead of the 4th on the old string, i.e., on the G-string play A1 B2 C3; E1 (on D-string); then D4 on the G-string and continue across.

Rhythms and double-stops can’t be overemphasized along with varied bowings and articulated (accented) slurred string-crossings.

The slow bows by the bridge are a must and you should accomplish this with extra bow left over and with beautiful full tone well under tempo. You can soften sections later.

Then gradually speed up. Use the metronome so you do not increase the speed too quickly.

One more aside: I use the metronome at higher speed, e.g., 8ths=120 instead of Qts-60. I find this gives more precision quickly, allows me to restart without long lulls waiting for that next interminable click, and it keeps my brain functioning –– I zone out on the super slow metronome pulse. Having said this, the bigger beat is what you want to have musically, but I feel this comes next.

Have fun!

Drew