Talking to the Conductor

March 21, 2008 at 11:43 AM

I've been historically scared to talk to conductors. I don't know why, either, because the conductors I've known have generally been nice. But it seems to be a version of the non-musician's being scared of the post-concert talk: I'm afraid of saying something stupid or ignorant. It's about me, not about them.

In a coincidence of good timing, Corwin's blog brought up an issue that has been bugging me in this regard: bowings in orchestra. I get surprisingly uncomfortable when I don't know what the bowings are for an orchestra piece. It makes it hard for me to practice the part. And when I don't know, I seem to be good at bowing the opposite direction from what the rest of the section is doing.

I also had this problem of being tongue-tied in the rehearsals of "Executive Orders." I was struggling with one of the midi files a few nights before the concert, especially the one for the movement that I ended up making a mistake on during the performance. I couldn't figure out how what I was hearing in the midi file mapped on to my part. Finally I gave up on the midi file for that movement, even though studying my part while listening to the midi files for the other movements had helped me greatly.

Then at the following orchestra rehearsal I finally ended up having a real conversation with the conductor. He started it, opening by saying how well he thought the piece had gone and how pleased the composer was with how it had turned out. And I finally brought up my problem with the midi file and he said if I could point them out, he would be happy to go over with me the specific measures where I wasn't getting it. That conversation was a relief in a couple of ways--one, that my mistake in that one movement wasn't weighing heavily on his mind; and two, that he was more than willing to help. I wish I had talked to him sooner.

From Tom Holzman
Posted on March 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Karen - the concertmaster rather than the conductor should be in charge of bowings for violin 1 (or section principal for violin 2s and other strings). A good concertmaster will distribute a copy of the part with appropriate bowings. The conductor, if s/he is not a string player, will not have a clue about bowings. If your concertmaster is not taking care of this, you should ask him/her to provide bowings in a timely manner.

From Karen Allendoerfer
Posted on March 21, 2008 at 1:31 PM

There are actually two separate issues. "Executive Orders" is written for choir with string quartet and guitar, and I am violin I in the quartet. So does that makes me sort of the "concertmaster," with those responsibilities?

During the initial rehearsals for that piece, I did notice that violin II and I were not always together with bowings, and before the dress rehearsal I showed her a couple of bowings that I wanted us to do together, and she seemed relieved to have me approach her about it. So I probably should have gotten a clue about that sooner, and will be able to before the encore performance of that piece, because there are more places where we two violins could be bowing together and aren't.

The issue that I want to discuss with the conductor for that piece isn't bowing, it's rhythm and fitting together as an ensemble. I had trouble following my part and counting during one movement when listening to the midi file and that was the movement I made a mistake on in performance too. I just don't get where to come in and how my part fits with the other parts. I listen to the midi file and count what's printed and then I hear the little computerized violin I come in where I don't expect it to--or I don't hear it when I think I should hear it.

But then there is the other issue of the full orchestra, where currently I'm a foot soldier in the back of the firsts. What I've observed is that the concertmaster is figuring out the bowings herself as we rehearse. I sat with her a couple of times in the past and that's how it worked then. My impression is that she's not entirely comfortable with that part of the role--and I sympathize.

I was concertmaster once, for a concert at Caltech a number of years ago, and getting the bowings stressed me out. But I did it. I remember even discussing bowings with my teacher in a lesson because I didn't feel comfortable figuring them out by myself for the entire section. People would ask me questions and I wanted to have an answer ready.

From Tom Holzman
Posted on March 21, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Karen - I think it is important to encourage the concertmaster to take charge of the bowings. One thing IMHO that is useful for everyone involved to keep in mind is that the actual choice of a particular bowing in a particular place (e.g., up or down on the third beat of measure four; should the last two sixteenths of measure 16 be slurred or not) is probably not as crucial as that everyone be doing the same thing. The conductor should be able to tell the musicians if a particular bowing causes him/her interpretive problems, at which point the bowing can be changed (e.g., the phrasing works better if the last two notes in measure 16 are slurred but are both up bow and dotted). Ideally, the concertmaster should have the bowings distributed in enough time so that the conductor and everyone else can tell if there is a problem necessitating a change.

From Yixi Zhang
Posted on March 21, 2008 at 6:40 PM

I recall the first advice my old teacher gave me on playing in an orchestra was to make sure to get the bowing right even if I couldn't play everything written on the sheet -- some sort of shadow playing as a first step to mingle in a group I guess. My limited orchestra experience in Canada coincides with what Tom said, it is one of a few jobs of a concertmaster to write down all the bowings for everyone in the section to follow.

Generally I find conductors are veryknowledgeable and the most helpful during rehearsals, as they’d teach us a lot about the music and how to put things together as a whole group. But sometimes, especially when we accompany a soloist, I’m not always sure whether and when it’s better to watch more closely to the conductor or the soloist (or the bowing for that matter).

I sometimes heard professional orchestra musicians complaining about how useless to have a conductor’s “chorography”, and after watching some DVDs performed by solo violinists accompanied by small or medium size orchestras without a conductor, the role of a conductor is more mysterious to me now than, say, 25 years ago.

From Yixi Zhang
Posted on March 21, 2008 at 6:53 PM

oops, it should be "choreography".

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on March 24, 2008 at 10:35 PM

I like horeography

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