Prythm continued.

March 18, 2008 at 12:09 AM

Greetings,
This is a shorter continuation of thoughts on the use of mm. The reason I believe it is important to kick this topic around is that it somehow connects to much deeper issues of how we approach a piece of music.
In my previous ramble I suggested that there were times when a mm is invaluable and times when the tool becomes a weakened of rhythmic sense and musicianship. Let’s take a typical example of the latter. A player is not holding notes for their full length in a slightly slower passage. A mm is immediately prescribed as a solution because then one is forced to play within a specific and invariant time frame. Has much been learnt? I suspect not. What other options are available. I suggested previously that counting aloud is was an option but here are some other aspects of the situation.
First, do you know what the pinao is doing? Most string players don’t and couldn’t care less;) However, the piano player may have to fit in four 16th notes to your quarter note and if you are cutting corners then they are not going to be pleased. So, if you don’t know the piano part, have no interest in playing the piano etc you are limiting yourself as a musician in two respects: first, if you don’t know the piano part you cannot claim to know a piece of music. Second you are not using it as a rhythmic guide. If one knew the piano part and counted that rhythm aloud then the violin notes would be the right length. ( If the worst come sot the worst, learn the piano part on the violin.)
This gives us a useful insight into the idea of counting aloud. Why assume it has to be in quarter notes? If one counts 16ths and plays quarters that is a much higher level that will solve any rhythmic problem and stimulate the brain to work much harder in playing rhythmically. One need not stop there. The possibility exists of tapping the foot in quarter notes and doing different rhythms with the voice and vice versa. The point is to challenge rather than limit and restrict oneself.
To take it back to my original point about what a serious issue this is I wonder how many violinists are taught in the beginning stages to learn the rhythm of a piece first, then the pitches, then both together etc before they have even picked up the instrument? Good teachers work like this. Bad teachers don’t bother. They let an over excited student of any age pick up a work and start hacking away before pointing out a few errors which the student is suppose dot iron out by next week. Where is the joy in such destructive `learning` and oh how these habits are carried into the remainder of that persons playing career.
Incidentally, I am not such a big fan of clapping. I actually prefer conducting with finger snapping except for young kids who can’t do this. Not only do I find this works slightly better but it also allows the use of hand to indicate dynamics and character rather better than the process of clapping.
Off for prunes ,2,3,4,
Buri

From Mendy Smith
Posted on March 18, 2008 at 4:53 AM

>They let an over excited student of any age pick up a work and start hacking away before pointing out a few errors which the student is suppose dot iron out by next week. Where is the joy in such destructive `learning` and oh how these habits are carried into the remainder of that persons playing career.<

As far as my own rhythm problems are concerned, this was self-induced. Several weeks without lessons (business trip to China), had me "experimenting" on my own - moving along through the final few movements to relax from work. As a result, when I had lessons again after I returned hom, I was sent home with a scolding... "now you have to practice these parts 10X over to un-learn these bad habits".

Lesson learned. :)

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on March 18, 2008 at 6:48 AM

Greetings,
given a few hundred years I might even unlearn some of mine. Its so difficult to not practice in less than optimal conditions and I can`t count the number of times I`ve paid the price. At least I am in good company.;)
Cheers,
Buri

From Drew Lecher
Posted on March 18, 2008 at 6:52 PM

Buri,

I love your follow-ups:-)

< If one counts 16ths and plays quarters that is a much higher level that will solve any rhythmic problem and stimulate the brain to work much harder in playing rhythmically. One need not stop there. The possibility exists…>

Absolutely true! To think know and play all sorts of subdivisions is great training and far more challenging and interesting. It opens the mind to so many musical and rhythmic subtleties and variables.

The conducting and snapping fingers, instead of clapping, is great except years ago my fingers would become raw, so conducting, singing and counting became my norm.

Ah, thinking before playing…………:-)

I have to admit being in company with you and Mendy regarding "left-footed" starts.

Yixi, in your response to Buri's earlier mm blog, you mentioned adding the music at the end — apply it right away during the whole process of developing as this helps secure the technique and the musicianship, artistry!

Thanks, as always Buri.
Drew

From Yixi Zhang
Posted on March 19, 2008 at 6:22 AM

I usually listen to at least 3-4 different versions of a piece that I’m working on again and again so that I ended up knowing the piano or orchestra part by heart. But that doesn’t stop me from speeding up and slowing down in some parts, and when it comes to where the violin plays all by itself, the rhythm can get a bit too free if I’m not careful about it.

My teacher does finger snapping, she counts out loud, she never uses a metronome on me (something I should ask her about at my next lesson), and she always reminds me about pulse. Did you two came from a same teacher? :-)

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on March 19, 2008 at 6:30 AM

Greetings,
Yixi, its vaguely possible that some of the tempo fluctuation is a result of lsitening intently to a number of interpretations. Just a thought.
I woudl recommend learning the piano part on the violin for you. A true challenge of your intellect. tehn you can really keep a multitak mind going.
I suspect if you did more mental subdivisiobn during your pieces taht woudl also help to stop teh slight fluctuations.
Drew and I did share the same teahcer -very- perhiperally. I tooka small numbe rof lessons off Yfrah Nieman after attenidng one of his summer courses. I think my lack of talent annoyed him....
Cheers,
Buri

From Yixi Zhang
Posted on March 20, 2008 at 6:41 AM

Buri, it’s possible my tempo fluctuation is caused by mixing interpretations. I’ll watch for that. I tried the piano part of the Mozart VC #3 tonight. It’s bit like playing in an orchestra and watching the solo to struggle, except this solo is my inner voice with a lot of notes conveniently missing. Phew!

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Prythm continued.

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