Brahms D minor Sonata II - sul G?

January 28, 2026, 5:43 PM · Nah!

Edited: January 28, 2026, 7:44 PM · Greetings, I’m afraid I don’t really agree with you on this Laurie. It was as far as I know, Brahm‘s intention to have it played on the G string. I think the reason for this is to provide a contrast with the first movement which starts on the D string. in my opinion Brahms, knew enough about the violin to actually plan the color contrast in order for the Sonata to tell a story.
Warmest regards,
Buri

Edited: January 28, 2026, 6:56 PM · Laszlo Varga‘s very cool cello transcription has this sul G :). No problem!

January 28, 2026, 7:43 PM · Yes, but the spike through the neck is quite annoying….

January 28, 2026, 7:58 PM · Sigh.

January 28, 2026, 8:31 PM · It’s a nice coincidence you brought this up Laurie. These days I find myself reviewing and rethinking so many fingerings and bowings I used for so many years. It’s not just the normal day to day search for improvements which may, or may not, be incremental. I think it has something to do with changes in emphasis on beauty of sound, historical interpretation and the like. I really feel like my ears have changed!
Still like Milstein the best though…:)
Cheers,
Buri

January 28, 2026, 10:24 PM · I think you want as warm of a timbre here as you can get. On the d string it would sound brighter and more incisive, which might work if your conception is trying to bring out a sense of angst; but to me, this is that late autumnal Brahms. I would be trying to get as close to a viola sound as I could (if I could).

But then again, if you find that you can get that kind of warmth on the D string as opposed to the G, then how could you not?

January 28, 2026, 10:59 PM · According to Wikipedia, this piece was premiered by Brahms and Jeno Hubay. While we can’t know for sure if it was exactly what he 'wished'—as he likely had the style of contemporary performers in mind—I would guess that playing this passage on the G string was certainly within his expectations. When a composer is not a specialist in violin, it is difficult to guess how detailed their mental image of the performance was. For example, I think playing it in the third position is a perfectly valid option.
As for the D in the second measure, considering the phrasing and the notes around it, it feels most appropriate to use vibrato. In that sense, an open D might be difficult to justify.

January 28, 2026, 11:25 PM · Christian,
You could do a Heifetz and play the first movement on the G string and the second on the D, thereby reversing the seasons. Easy to defend as a by-product of climate change.

January 28, 2026, 11:49 PM · I personally stay sul G until the 3rd note of measure 19 (f#) with the exception of measure 14 where I remain in 2nd position for the octave leap and return to the G string on the following measure.

January 29, 2026, 2:24 AM · That's a good point, Buri - No reason for our interpretative choices to remain mired in old seasons. Our music should be fresh and reflect the realities of our world!

January 29, 2026, 3:09 AM · I heard to play this on D string by a very good violinist,and it sounds beatifully,in its simplicity

January 29, 2026, 6:07 AM · Nate it's good to see that some violinists don't shy away from second position!

January 29, 2026, 7:02 AM · The Henle edition doesn't specify the string.

January 29, 2026, 8:16 AM · Neither does the Simrock 1889 "First edition", nor Breitkopf und Haertel 1926-7.

January 29, 2026, 8:24 AM · Buri could you clarify what you meant when you wrote that the first movement starts on the D-string?

January 29, 2026, 8:35 AM · But the violin part of my 1975 Henle "urtext" edition does say "IV" in tiny print, twice, then "III" in bar 13. The full piano score doesn't have them. So..?

Edited: January 29, 2026, 11:19 AM · Different editors, different mores?

This is the version I looked at

January 29, 2026, 11:39 AM · Actually, I'd suppose that Henle edition just linked by Andrew would not omit the "sul G" if Brahms had written it in his manuscript. It would have been a grave error to omit that, especially since that Henle edition is a so-called scholarly edition, and they probably worked from the manuscript (which I understand exists and is kept in a library in Vienna). So, unless Hans Otto Hiekel made a serious blunder, it seems plausible that Brahms did *not* write any "sul G".

January 29, 2026, 1:31 PM · @Laurie - aside from any technical issues, how does starting on the G sound to you vs. starting on the D. To me, that's the ultimate test. If it sounds as good or better to start on the D, that settles the question, IMHO. I suppose we cannot know how Hubay played it at the premiere (presumably with Brahms approval), unless there is an edition he edited out there somewhere (not clear who edited the Simrock), there is no definitive answer. So, do it the way you most enjoy it and works best for you. Have fun!

Edited: January 29, 2026, 1:56 PM · When I performed it, I played the first 19 bars all on the G string - but my violin had at the time an outstanding tone in the higher reaches of the G string, and powerful with it. However, whatever it was that Brahms wrote about which string to use, it's not going to be applicable to all instruments.

Edited: January 29, 2026, 3:28 PM · I move to the D string in 13, and again in 20.

One curious riddle is what is meant by “espressivo.” You could start channeling Caruso, but I once read this through with a pianist who wanted it to be very quiet and inwardly turned. I never got what he had in mind…

Another Brahms Sonata fingering— the tune opening the G Major I take all on the D string. Natural harmonic down to open D—a coherent gesture totally suited for the mood. Kneisel and others specified the harmonic. The open D seals the deal to me.

Another example that is clearer cut: slow movement of Beethoven Op 74. It is tempting to stay full throated and go up on the G for the octave in the last statement/variation of the tune. But if you isolate the main part of the tune and keep that on G, while pushing the noodles and ornaments onto the D, it becomes more consistent with the movement’s expression, I think.

January 29, 2026, 6:18 PM · Yes, "espressivo" seems to imply something other than "IV" or "sul G" which often signals a big, operatic tune. I'd play it mezzo piano mostly on the D string rising to the climax in bar 22.

January 29, 2026, 6:38 PM · According to CHATGPT (aaargh) the autograph and a number of early editions specify d string. I don’t think this is set in stone, but the number of violinists who play it on the g string are very few in number. Heifetz and Menuhin are the two that spring to mind. I think the second movement is much less open to choice and you would be very hard pressed to find any modern recording that does it on the d string.
Cheers,
Buri

Edited: January 31, 2026, 1:11 PM · Are you speaking of the d minor slow movement, or the opening of the 1st movement of the G Major? I don't doubt that most people start the phrase on the D in the latter, but they usually migrate to the G string very quickly-- to avoid open strings, and, probably, to milk the deeper tone of the bottom register.

By contrast, I prefer 4(0) 4(0) 4(0), 4, 3, 1, 0 in third position.

January 30, 2026, 6:34 PM · Sul G for the entirety of the first extended phrase. :)

Mr. Brivati…your earlier comment: you start Brahms d minor sonata mvt 1 on the D string?! Do you mean the Op. 78 mvt 1?

January 31, 2026, 6:42 AM · yes that's also what I asked Buri… there seems to be some kind of mixup.

January 31, 2026, 7:28 PM · Sure, absolutely—play it on the D string. However, you might be perceived as lazy, untrained, or lacking in technique. And while you’re at it, play the opening of Saint-Saens #3 on the D string, too. Oh, and Tzigane…that would be a winner.

January 31, 2026, 10:35 PM · Personally, I wouldn't choose this option, but I can see a merit in playing the 11th measure on the D string, as it allows for staying longer on the last note of the 10th measure. It might work if I had the technique to create a 'soft' upward leap of a fifth from there.

January 31, 2026, 10:50 PM · Bars 13-15 seem clearly to be shared by D and G with obvious fingering.

January 31, 2026, 11:07 PM · I agree. It depends on the piece, but I think there is also the perspective of deciding the general range of positions to be used throughout the entire movement.

Edited: February 1, 2026, 2:38 AM · Scott - Apart from the uncertainty as to what Brahms actually wanted, I think we should play his sonatas as music rather than musical gymnastics like Tzigane (Ravel's tongue was firmly in his cheek). I don't believe the audience will be marking Laurie for technique.