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Use of American vs European spruce for violin bellies and soundboards (1700s to present)

November 17, 2024, 11:58 AM · Hi All, I am researching the maker of my violin. He was a professional Luthier named Peter (Pierre) Lambert (1833-1918). Originally from Quebec, he made violins in Duluth, Minnesota (1880s through ~1914), set up a violin making shop in Chicago (1914-1918), and very briefly in Los Angeles (1904). He was a proponent of using spruce from northern Minnesota. How radical a departure would that have been from normal practice for a professional Luthier of that time and place? Were there other professional North American Luthiers at this time that used local spruce? I imagine that amateur violin makers might have frequently used what ever spruce was readily available. Thanks for considering my question! best, Jeff Olson

Replies (8)

November 17, 2024, 12:22 PM · If one could make three identical violins to compare spruce obtained in the forests of Romania, vs. Minnesota, vs. northern China, then one could examine this question scientifically. Any luthier present who's up to that challenge? Didn't think so, because it's a fool's errand to think that anyone can make three identical violins.

I just bought a viola made by Daniel Foster in 2006. Dan was a friend of mine who made violins here in Blacksburg. He made hundreds of instruments and I know that he was fond of starting from wood from various different places as a challenge to himself, but I don't know if that included the spruce tone-wood for the tops. A couple of years before he succumbed to dementia, Dan was working on a cello made from Lombardy poplar, and he was having the time of his life doing it. He went on about how nicely workable the poplar was, and he told me "I hope it sounds good, too."

If anything I would guess that the luthiers of 100-150 years ago were more willing to experiment with local wood, since shipping then was far costlier than it is today. But I can't answer your central question and I look forward to hearing from someone who can.

Edited: November 19, 2024, 4:09 PM · I have a 1943 James R. Carlisle, #1142 that is made with American red maple for back and sides and the top is Adirondack spruce. I believe that C.F.Martin use Adirondack spruce for the tops of their guitars.
Edited: November 19, 2024, 7:44 PM · During our (amateur) orchestra rehearsal break about 50 years ago I was standing at the back of our rehearsal/performance hall when I heard remarkable violin sounds coming from the front of the hall. One of our younger violinists was trying a violin the maker had just finished making and wanted to get a hearing. My mind instantly went "there_ --> "I gotta have that." I wasn't the only one with that thought, but the high school senior with that thought was told by her violin teacher she should buy the "other one," an old French fiddle - so I lucked out. Just how much I didn't realize until some time later when I heard the recording of my "performance" with it at a wedding, with an organ accompaniment - it really delivered - over the organ!

The top was American, Engelmann Spruce." My granddaughter took it over at age 10 when I offered her her choice of my violins and she still has it, 25 years later. At that time (~1999) I ordered another new violin from the same maker, who still had wood from the same log, but in my opinion it doesn't have the same power. I also have a viola (1996) from the same maker, who is a personal friend.

Lydia liked that first fiddle.

November 20, 2024, 6:25 AM · Not going to tell us who the maker is, Andrew? And by the way, have you offered a violin, yet, to any of your great-grandchildren? :)
November 20, 2024, 8:39 AM · My spruce stockpile consists of European and American Engelmann, and I have make several violins from each type. The results vary, with no hint that I can find why that is. I have even made consecutive violins using same-log top and back (even verifying by measurement that the density and speed of sound matched), and the results were very non-identical.

Although I do find that Engelmann tends to run into the lower densities, and I think there is something tonally different between wide variations in wood properties, there is a lot of overlap in the tree-to-tree variations.

Historically, I can't answer what type of spruce makers might have used, but I don't think you can reliably attribute good or bad results to that choice.

November 20, 2024, 10:29 AM · Paul, no GGchildren yet.
My son has already received a violin and a cello from my "collection" plus a ouple of earlier violins and he will inherit 3 violins a viola and my last cello. Another cello has gone to a son-in-law.
November 20, 2024, 6:34 PM · I believe that historically, makers have chosen the best available wood from their regions. However, with globalization and air travel, that has naturally changed. In my opinion, the finest wood for violins comes from the Dolomites, a mountain range in the Northeastern Alps. Many of the great Italian violin makers sourced wood from this region, and it undoubtedly produces a distinct sound. I'm not sure if it is still as highly coveted as it was in the 17th and 18th centuries.
Edited: November 25, 2024, 4:27 AM · Rocca used American maple for the 1850 violin Paolo Borciani played in the celebrated Quartetto Italiano. It is not a new thing. I have made nice sounding violas with North American wood.
www.manfioviolas.com

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