Time to pack it up?
I've played over a year. I'm in my 40's. I can sight read to a much higher level but my technical skills are very poor. My new teacher decided we needed to work on skill and not more repertoire. Ever since being demoted back to book 1 for bowing, staccato etc. exercises, I have lost my love for playing. I have asked to play other music for fun but even those pieces are being critiqued to where nothing is fun anymore. I no longer feel "proud" of my accomplishments...cuz I don't have any. It doesn't seem to matter how much I practice, I still have the same issues. Since my desire to please is gone, I sound worse at each visit. String crossings and staccato were never an issues before, but now it is.
He asked me if it was really worth it. I love the violin, I think I was dellusional to think I could play it this late age.
I'm in a slump and I don't know how to get over it.
Should I consider myself a lost cause and give it up?
Replies (100)
Of course 40 is not too old. Either you are not work ing hard enough (which is in your hands) or you are working wrongly (which is to some extent in your hands but depends mainlhy on the teacher).
I started lessons a bit over a year ago. Older than you. Admittedly not a complete beginner. My teacher said his first priority was to develop a love of the instrument in me by coaching me into doing something which sounds reasonably nice. It worked. Of course progress is not steady, there are always throughts as well as good moments.
Hello,
nothing unfortunaly comes out without MOTIVATION.
even you know "why" you want to play violin good and progress, somewhere deep inside yourself you don`t find "WHY"...
I think this is the reason for not progressing.
I pray for you to know WHY.
thanks
Sounds like you're getting GOOD, AF.
There are three stages to learning the way you and I do:
1) Initially there's a honeymoon period that a lot of people never get out of.
2) As you keep working, you start crapping out as you notice all the things that you're not doing right. Nothing sounds or feels good, and the more you practice the worse it gets. AF, it seems to me as if you're in THIS stage currently.
3) After a lot of persistence and questioning and technical modifications, you still think you're terrible but there are some things you know you can do right. It's still a struggle, but you're playing things you would've never dreamed of attempting. And you don't even know it at this point!
The way I myself got out of level 2 was to attempt increasingly difficult repertoire just like you want to do, AF. Almost every teacher I've ever had save my two best ones had told me not to try pieces beyond my capability, and I willfully disobeyed them all because I knew deep down that there were things in advanced repertoire that would help my technique if I spent my time learning them. I'll probably be roasted over the coals for posting this, but it WORKED for my violinistic development and got me to where I am today.
I was in your shoes not so long ago, AF. Like you, my instinct was telling me this: try new repertoire. What I did was pick up songs that I wanted to learn on my own without my teacher's knowledge and work them. I "dared" to learn the Bruch Concerto #1 at 11, which made my teacher so angry she almost dumped me and the $$ my parents were paying her. But it proved to be the right decision in both long and short runs - tackling that concerto forced my technique to grow so that easier repertoire that I couldn't get (i.e. Kreisler's Praeludium/Allegro) became a lot more manageable. Eventually, I moved on from that teacher to Pardee at the Juilliard school. Pardee placed no restrictions on what I should play and allowed me to pursue anything of any difficulty as long as I worked it to my max.
Once again, I will probably be roasted for willfully disobeying my teachers' edicts. But in the end, my instincts proved right for me.
For the first about 2 or 3 years of when I was playing (in middle/elementry school) I thought the same thing you are thinking right now. My teacher had me go through books 1 and 2 of 3 different methods, for technical skills: All for strings, Suzuki, and Essential Elements. And then after I worked on those technical aspects I stuck with Suzuki and now (after playing for 7 years) I have acceled to book 7. So I say stick with it and practice as much as you can!
~*~Violins Make the World go Round~*~
Hey man don't give up!! There is no reason to. Trust me, give it time and keep working at the instrument, and you'll improve and grow to love the instrument more. I've been there before and am glad that I didn't quit. The violin is hard, but it can be rewarding when the work pays off.
Greetings,
actually I think you need a better teacher.
There seems to be some unspoken agreement between student and teacher that a student is full of flaws and the teacher will pick up those flaws until one learns to be a good little student.
It has some merits but is also somewhat arse over tit. If we believe NLP, the inner game of tenniis (as just two examples) of how people really can lerarn rapidly and well, we do not really want some well meaning critic jumping on our every move and reinforcing our critical inner voice. more often than not it means that whenever you perform you are eithe rgetting on your own back or recalling all the nagging , well intentioned criticism you payed big bucks for and then play like a doofus. What then? Go back for more basics, more criticism?
Learning is also a process of -learning what is good- by having thatpointed out to you. One can then pay attention to that and see how it effects other things and so on.
Just one example springs to mind.
My last teacher at college really said very little about playing the violin while I wa spreparing for my final recital. He was smart enoguh to know I couldn`t take any more abuse (and yep, I do think some teachers come very close to abusing their students) so at a lesson very close to D-Day I played him the Elgar sonata and about the only thing he said in the lesson concerned the four opening bars of the slow movement `Wow. You really thought about the color of each differnet phrase.` That wa ssort of only half true but it made me feel ten feet tall and I went away and thought and thought about how to find all the color in the damn piece I wa s capable of. Now that was real teaching.
Cheers,
Buri
Wow, if that's the case I should just give up. I started at age 51 now 54. It's not easy but it's coming along ok. My teacher says i'm improving all the time. By the way, if a teacher asks you if it's really worth it, he's not worth being a teacher. Get another.
I agree, get another teacher. At your age, you are learning the violin for the pleasure and love of the instrument and music - not to become the next J. Bell.
My philosophy in teaching is that a teacher can always find something the student is successful at and then build around that (if they truely are wanting to learn). Major technique challenges can always be partnered with something that is enjoyable to work on.
I wish you luck, and DON'T give up! Talk to your teacher about working on some fun projects in addition to your challenging technically work or find another someone else. Would you stay with a doctor if he insisted on amputating your arm if you had a blister?
Good luck and happy playing!
Catherine
It is true that as I'm getting better, I notice all my faults even more. My teacher told me that it frustrates him to teach someone that has aquired bad habits. I got the message loud and clear. I just didn't know what to do about them...other than practice, practice, practice.
I regret not learning proper technique more than he does...I paid for the bad lessons.
I'm nervous about going to another teacher since I can't discern who is good and who isn't.
I've lost my desire probably because I feel like I will NEVER please him. Even if I did what he asked, he wouldn't compliment me on what I did well, but find another wrong thing.
I guess I'm sensitive to too much negativity. I need SOME encouragements to have me go back and try again.
Next week, I will seek another teacher...we'll see if it makes a difference.
Thanks for all your input. I feel there is hope, even if its just a glimmer.
I echo everyone else's suggestions about considering a new teacher. I took lessons for 13 years as a child, and when I got to college and found so many people who'd played for a much shorter time but were far better than I was, I wondered if maybe I just didn't have talent. I essentially put the violin aside for a decade, then last year decided to start lessons again.
WOW! What a difference! Yes, I'm older and all that, but I have no doubt that I'd be much further along if I'd had someone like her when I was a kid. There was so much I thought I'd never be able to do---double stop thirds, playing above 7th position, etc.---but now I can, because she teaches me.
If you are practicing a lot and not making progress (a common occurrence for me in the past), then something's wrong. Your teacher's job is to show you what and how to practice, and then you do it. Repetition, if you don't know where you're going, is useless. It may take some time to find the right teacher for you, but I'd encourage you to take a look around. Good luck.
AF, there's NO WAY to discern who's "good and bad" as far as selecting a new violin teacher goes.
You just have to try teachers out and see. Even learning from a "bad" teacher will be beneficial for you in the long run, if only because you'll learn how NOT to do something and to trust your own instincts. Some teachers you'll study years with, others you'll last a few lessons with, some you'll reject outright, and there a select few who can teach you everything you need to know in a few lessons. What works for one doesn't work for another either, so trial and error is the only proven way that works.
Despite you having clear personality conflicts with your teacher, it won't change the fact that you really do perceive all of the things you can be doing better. In a way, your current teacher did his job too well. Thanks to both of your hard work, you've developed a little self-inflicted problem that plagues advanced violinists: A CRITICAL EAR. Until you reach a certain level on your own, your overall playing will just sound plain lame to yourself even if other people like us enjoy what you're doing. And that's a GOOD THING. But understand that the sweetest and most sympathetic and even most skilled violin teacher isn't going to take away the shivers down your spine you get when you do something wrong and you know that you blew it.
If you sat your teacher down and voiced your honest opinions and concerns, you might be surprised at what he says. Your experience with your teacher sounds so much like what I went through with Aaron Rosand. With me, Aaron Rosand was a gruff taskmaster who held me to the same standards he held himself to. Granted he was totally fair and probably complimented me a lot more than your teacher was doing, but Rosand was trying to get me to operate to the level he was operating at. I had gone through an entire lifetime of tough teachers, so Rosand was a pussycat compared to someone like Enrico DiCecco of the NY Philharmonic. HE was a truly bullying and ridiculing teacher, but I stood up to him even as a kid and ended up learning more from him than I did all my other teachers before Juilliard. I was practically beaten into performance shape by that man, and I got away just before I started to turn on him.
Where you and your teacher may have a falling out isn't the personality of approval issue, AF. It's the course of what he thinks you need in your violin training. Your teacher is bringing you back to the basics, but you and I don't agree that anything is going to change by doing that. A new teacher who is totally nice and supportive but won't let you advance at this point might not be the best option. Then again, it might be - none of us have heard you play. And that's why you can't know who's good or bad for you as a teacher until you actually try him out.
I'd go so far as to say that teachers aren't truly "good" or "bad". They just are appropriate for different people at different times of their lives.
I started lessons the end of November at age 44.
Never played an instrument before. I went into this with the belief that by my 50th bday I will sound "decent."
If I reach a "decent" stage before age 50, lovely. But I know after a year I won't even be close.
Frustrating? Sometimes. But I'm realistic and optimistic.
Greetings,
Kevin, you said
>I'd go so far as to say that teachers aren't truly "good" or "bad". They just are appropriate for different people at different times of their lives.
I respectfully beg to differ.
A teacher who destroys a students confidence and pelasure is a bad teacher period. A teacher has the responsibilty to ensure that the teaching correlates to the psycholgical/emotioal needs at a given moment. Taht is the difference between a good and a bad teacher.
You give an example of strict taechers you had but I think your argument is flawed. You clealry needed a kick in the butt with your hard taskmasters , fought back and learnt. That was good teaching. But if those same taskmaster were unable to change to something different for another stduent and in the process destroyed them, no amount of good studnets would qualify them as a good teacher- and I assume hear that the destroyed number more than just say 1 dead stduent and five hundred satisfied punters.If a teacher can`t do it with one person they usually can`t do it with most.
Its kind of like a driver. If they drive well most of the time but are prone to lapses of concentration that eventually lead to obne accident then that is -not- a good driver even if they are safe ninety percent or whateevr of the time,
Cheers,
Buri
You're right in many ways, buri.
Enrico Dicecco scared a lot of students to death, discouraged a lot of people from playing their best, and was a general terror whose bluster masked a surprisingly soft and cuddly interior. By your definition, buri, he was a "bad" teacher for the legions of people that couldn't deal with him. I agree with that completely.
On the other hand, Dicecco was actually the perfect teacher for me for the brief time I studied with him. He was my very first orchestra teacher, and I used to dread going to rehearsals at first. Though I was only 10, he held me to the same extremely high standard he held himself in a very VOCAL way. That means he yelled and cursed at me in front of everybody while raging at my imperfections. If I didn't grow up in a really rough school with a really rough family (Taiwanese teachers HIT HARDER and are even more stone-willed, so Dicecco wasn't THAT big a deal to me), I'd not have been able to survive that. He took a special interest in me because I would come back for more training, so he rode me harder than he did everybody else. Our having faced similar rought circumstances as kids gave us a common bond too.
The best part would be when he'd pick up the violin and SHOW ME how it was done. DiCecco was a Louis Persinger student, and he was every bit equal to Ruggiero Ricci skillwise. Outside the lesson, Dicecco gave me a TON of professional advice that I didn't even know was advice at the time. Even today, I still remember him telling me "I know so many people who've played the violin for 40 years - the same year 40 times!"
I got to go back to see DiCecco a few years after I left him, and he was as irascible as ever. At that point, he wasn't able to help me get to the next level and so I didn't continue to learn from him. But that doesn't stop me from recognizing his value in my life. My only pity is that I never got to tell him how much he helped me, especially since my career has had its share of tough moments where his iron fisted approach was the only thing that saved me. I don't think he'd be proud of me if he knew what I were doing nowadays, but that doesn't matter because I'm living off the stuff he taught me.
It's easy for me on one hand to say "Enrico Dicecco scares students to death", but I'll also say "Enrico Dicecco is the first violin teacher I've had who toughened me up so that I can have a career today". I'll also say "Enrico Dicecco was good for me at a critical stage in my life but would not have been good afterwards". It's such a mixed bag for me, which is why I'm glad I enjoyed (survived) the experience.
Is Enrico Dicecco a "bad" teacher? To most people, "yes". To me, "yes and no".
Buri, Kevin,
I beg to differ with you both. Yes there are good and bad teachers out there. But a good teacher may not be a good teacher for every type of student and just because a teacher is not good with a certain type of student doesn't mean that they are a bad teacher across the board. For example, many accomplished violinists who teach advanced students have no idea what to do with beginners and "destroy" them as you say. The same goes with teachers who hold on to their students long past the time that the student has outgrown them. I think Kevin's point has a little truth to it as certain people need a certain kind of teacher. Buri also has a point though that there are some universally bad teachers out there.
But then, what do I know?
-Laura
Another beginner here, although i've only been practicing for a few months.
I get the left-hand stuff pretty easily because i have background in other instruments, but my right hand has pretty much no idea what it's doing, as of yet. Bowing is hard!!
You know A LOT, Laura, because you're a highly successful full time professional teacher with regular students!
I probably fall into the "universally bad" category as a teacher. I've had some experience teaching, and a handful of my students have benefited a lot from what I taught them. But most people can't deal with my rather strange personality and my even stranger playing style. Because of that as well as my life circumstances, I don't know when or how to give students what they need. I don't have much in common with my students as a person, and that makes it impossible for me to relate to them or them to relate to me. That's why I haven't had a single violin student last more than 2 years with me.
Because of my near utter inability to teach properly, I have SO MUCH RESPECT for teachers and those who try to learn from them (which is everybody on violinist.com, including AF who started this thread).
iGreetings,
I accept your point Laura, but it still doesn`t get there for me. Of course there are teachers who are incoimpatible with students. I`ve bene on the recieving end of that more than once. However, I think there is an over riding criteria that is rather like the Hippocratic Oath. If a teache rharms a student then it is not a question of mismatch or incompatibility but incompetence. That is why I belive the violin teaching profession needs ot take a good long hard look at itslef. There are way too many people out there claiming to be teachers because they can play well and are good at repeating verbatim the fairly standardize dparths to violin mastery. But, it really is time questions of certification and such were brought to the fore with Music institutions taking the lead in actually training teachers in such things as (eductaional ) psychology , basic body mechanics etc.
Cheers,
Buri
ummm, Kevin, I think you misunderstood me...I'm a student...a true beginner at 40. I've played the piano/flute/band instruments etc. before but never played the violin. Figured, it would be easy to pick up but I was WRONG!
In fact, my teacher harps on my hand position. He tells me I play the violin like I play the piano...curled and straight up like I was playing on the finger board. :(
Then the right hand has a mind of its own by being slower than my left hand. (Hey...it doesn't have keys to push down).
I am not close to anyone's caliber of playing, especially since my two hands can't cooperate with each other.
As for teachers in Asia (Korea in particular); my piano teacher in my youth was also a hard taskmaster. He had plans for Julliard, while I had other plans. He actually used a stick as a metronome and would smack the piano or my knuckles if I made the same mistake over again. I did learn to play concert level in 5 short years and even made it to national competition but I couldn't go on due to lack of confidence. The self critic in me grew to be a bigger monster to overcome. Nothing I played seemed perfect enough. BTW: I've had 2 Julliard teachers and they were both hard...yelling all the time. Fear is their motivation I guess.
I'm too old for harsh criticism...good grief, I just want to play well. I don't need to play on stage.
This is exactly why I DON'T teach, Laura!
AF, I don't mean to imply that you're an advanced violinist like people nowadays think of with concertos and competitions and stage things. I KNOW that you're a beginner, but you sound as if you're a pretty GOOD beginner because you're struggling with the right kinds of things.
All I have to do is look at the questions you've raised to see that you've got the right learning attitude and have legitimate concerns that you cannot overcome at this point. It presupposes a certain level of acquired skill and innate talent to recognize the limitations in oneself, even at a beginner level. I'm actually trying to give you a compliment for being such a perceptive student!
The violin by nature is an extremely difficult instrument. EVERYBODY struggles with it; nobody is spared. It has a lot of different ways to be played, which is what people are trying to tell you here. One should not beat himself up just because things aren't working, least of all you who's relatively new to the violin world.
An important thing to define is "play well." What does that mean? It's different for every person, so figuring that out is the most basic thing one does when embarking on a course of study. Too many times I've given people the wrong advice because their definition of "play well" didn't match up with what my definition of "play well" was.
I've done my share of teaching in my career - but not the violin. But I believe that teaching the violin is different from teaching most other kinds of subjects or skills.
I believe that the nature of the instrument and of the medium of music becomes so intensely personal that the relationship is less a "teacher-student" relationship than a "mentor-protege" relationship. In addition to all of the technical and artistic factors, the personal chemistry between the two has to be right. And that is purely a function of the individuals and if they are being genuinely who they are as people.
A teacher who is a tough, callous taskmaster can be perfect for some students and not for others. A warm, friendly teacher can be better for others.
Some famous teachers have had a reputation for being the toughest, most perfectionistic, and apparently "cruelest" teachers. But often they have also been the most revered, admired, loved, and successful -- not just because they strove for perfection, but because their style was an honest reflection of who they are inside and their true commitment to the artistic, technical, and personal development of their students.
Warm and fuzzy isn't always genuine, and cold and analytical isn't always uncaring.
That being said, a lot of students thrive better with a teacher with a more low-keyed, supportive style. It depends on the individuals.
Sandy
Kevin; :)
thanks for your encouragements. I'm not use to compliments.
Quote;
"That being said, a lot of students thrive better with a teacher with a more low-keyed, supportive style"
I need to find someone with this discription.
You DESERVE compliments, AF. You've earned them.
That's good you recognize that you need a "low-keyed supportive" teacher.
The only thing I'd caution you to consider is that you give your current teacher a chance to correct his ways. Perhaps you already have and it's a lost cause - then move on. But if not, give your teacher a benefit of a doubt and TALK TO HIM. Perhaps your teacher might turn into the "low keyed supportive" teacher you need if you give him a chance by voicing your true feelings.
I know that when I've screwed up students in the past, I've always wanted to hear about it so that I could fix my ways.
AF - I'm FURIOUS at your teacher and I don't even know him/her. Lose them, fast. Seriously. You need someone who can recognize what makes you thrive. I'm close to where you're at - 43 and have been playing for a year. And the lows have been low (some are on my blog - feel free to check out my whinging). Every time we back off melodical repertoire to work on technique I get a hiccup. The lesson book is geared toward kids and even the tunes interspersed with the technique points sound dull and uninspired. I want to play MUSIC. My teacher knows when to gently prod me on the technique side, but is fast to fling that book to the floor once I confess to feelings of despondency, lack of motivation, or the feeling that I've taken two giant steps back. She found a wonderful duet book and will assign those as needed. It's amazing, how once the music stimulates you, all the love and motivation comes flowing back.
I will always have left-handed technique issues. When I focus on what's not working, it's a lousy feeling. But darned if I can't play some pretty duet tunes even if I haven't mastered a C natural on the A string.
So, please, please, don't quit. Lose what doesn't nourish you, which it would seem is not the violin, but your teacher.
Buri,
You have a good point. There are people out there that think because they play well that they can teach well. Unfortunately, that's just not the case.
But I still think some teachers who you might call bad aren't necessarily bad teachers. They are just figuring out there niche. I think a good teacher needs to quickly recognize where their niche is. If you asked me to teach Tchaik concerto to a student, I would be a bad fit. That is not my niche. I focus particularly on giving students a good beginning. (I thinkthat number of students have a horrible foundation due to bad teaching in those early years. Those are really crucial years for future improvement. I focus on making sure they have that good foundation.) Even though I've had Suzuki teacher training books 1-10, I think my real strength lies in the first 5 books, so I stick to that and refer students to my husband once they reach that level. On the other hand, if you asked my husband to teach a 4 year old beginner their first steps in learning violin, he wouldn't have a clue what to do. That doesn't mean he's a bad teacher. He's a wonderful teacher for advanced students, but fortunately he recognizes that and sticks to what he's good at and I stick to what I'm good at. Sometimes it takes time though to realize what your niche is. I hate to be too quick to judge any teacher. It's a rewarding job, but not an easy one.
-Laura
Greetings,
Hi laura. You said
>But I still think some teachers who you might call bad aren't necessarily bad teachers. They are just figuring out there niche.
I agree completely that teacher`s have to learn, part of which is figuring out one`s niche. I would never cvall a teacher bad who was genuinly in the process of doing that. The problem is those who think they are already there and are unwilling to consider the possibilty that what they are doign is harming the student as has happened in this case. I al;ways seem to have stuck in mind something one of my tutors in Elementary Education said to me: @there is no greater crime than putting a chilrd off learning.` To me this is pretty much the same.
As far as the mentoring /gruff sdtuff a smentioned by Sander is cocnerned I have no probelm with that. But how often does one actually see it working with =beginners-? Differnet ball game with someone who is in college or got some foundation.
>I focus particularly on giving students a good beginning. (I thinkthat number of students have a horrible foundation due to bad teaching in those early years. Those are really crucial years for future improvement. I focus on making sure they have that good foundation.)
That is the make or break time and it is sursprisingly complicated to get right. Thankfully systems like Suzuki`s have helped the violin move beyond hit and miss.
Cheers,
Buri
Buri,
I think we're on the same page here. One of the single worst things in my mind is a teacher that has no humility. I would imagine that is true in any field though. Those who think they know everything are the ones that really know very little. Teachers of any level should be constantly striving to better themselves and do better for their students or they just aren't good teachers. That takes humility.
AF, if you see this lacking in your teacher, than RUN, get yourself another. You're clearly hard working and deserve better. Violin is supposed to be a fun and rewarding experience.
-Laura
Greetings,
how about trying a what if approach?
That is, AF goes his taecher and says `Look, I know and respetc you as a professioanl, but this criticism is gettign me down. Since I would like to study with you , woudl you consider trying five lessons in which you only say something negative if you say soemthign positive at te same time? Or even, would you consider tyring to say only psoitive things for the next five lessos? or soemthing like that.
If the teacher is neither willing to try or even talk about the reaosn you made the request that would tell you a litlte more about the teacher in question and how flexible/sympathetic they are likely to be in the future.
Cheers,
Buri
You want me to do WHAT???!!!!
Yikes! I don't think I could do that. Buri.
Perhaps, I could ask if there was a piece I could do that would have a positive outcome...but I don't think I could tell him how to teach me.
I'm moving on...
You can't talk to your teacher about this issue?
Move on, then. That's probably the best decision for all parties.
Moving on, sounds right. This teacher has a bad attitude, period.
> Those who think they know everything are the ones that really know very little.
Agreed. And they are a huge annoyance to those of us who do know everything.
>My teacher told me that it frustrates him to teach someone that has aquired bad habits.
Wow. I'm SO glad you're leaving this teacher, you will see that it is the best decision you could make. I understand that context is important when evaluating the quotes of others, but, man, what is a teacher for if not to correct bad habits? And who ever thought there is any student "out there" who hasn't developed bad habits to a greater or lesser extent?
Sorry for my rant, maybe your teacher is good for other students, but imo sounds like not for you.
And I do agree with you, I'm not comfortable telling my teachers how to teach me, and I'd feel like my hands were tied behind my back if a student told me how to teach them. Seems to me the best route is to take the teacher as they are, or to leave them.
Haha Eric. You're hilarious!
too bad I can't come here to get my lessons. ;)
I couldn't go wrong with a whole panel!
(you'd think with video capabilities in this day and age,it wouldn't be too far out.)
Eric; it would be interesting to see how you'd "fix" me. ;)
I made an appointment to see another teacher next week. She teaches at the local school. I'm hoping she has lots of patience with me AND is good at what she does. I Don't want to go through another year with bad teaching/or technique.
>I made an appointment to see another teacher next week. She teaches at the local school.
Great to hear it! And on the very first time you meet, be sure and spell out all of what you've told us here. Maybe even ask her how she'd approach such a situation. While technique is important, so motivation for playing music that you enjoy. Particularly for an adult beginner - this is supposed to be our ESCAPE from the dreary stuff. There's a way to combine the two factors, and I know, because my teacher manages to find it. YOU are the one paying the money. You should have equal say in how you're being taught.
Greetings,
Jenna, I don`t allow my stduent to tell me how to teach. I explain what I am doing and why , ask if they are okay with what is happening and monitor for problems and feed back all the time. Not often verbal.
One of the most importnat quesitons you cna ask a new studnet is `Why do yu want to play the violin? What do you wnat to be able to do?` It is surprising how ften goals vary and this has a diretc bearing on the amount of presusre and type of material the teacher feeds the student. Without this kind of basic communication the teacher/stuent master/slave edifice is fundamentall flawed.
And yes, you can express your unhappiness with the contrent of the lesson respectfully without upsetting the balance of the mentor relationship, expecially if you are of comaprable age. The method of communication to work on is to
1) identify your feelins.
2) Identify the precise action you are bothered by.
3) state you values clearly and how you would like your lesson to fit into those values.
IE These days I am feeling discouraged because When I play you a piec e you don`t say what is good i it. I really appreciate the helpful criticism but I would like to ask you to consider telling me what is good a smuch as bad.
Notice that you don`t present a yes/no response request. That is where the situation in relationships breaks down. You are asking the other person to simply consider what you are saying. The result is not up to you and you are not making a demand.
The main reason miscommunication occurs across so many sitiations is lack of clarity and inabilty ot state esxactly how you feel and what you want. This can be done objectively and if you don`t get the answer you are looking for you cna atleast move on with no harm done.
Cheers,
Buri
Great points Buri. Any teacher who is secure in their teaching will actually appreciate such a conversation when it is presented in such a non-confrontational way. Feedback is vital to continuing to be a better teacher. AF if your teacher is interested in becoming a better teacher for you, I would imagine that he would greatly appreciate if you had a talk with him about how you are feeling. If he's not interested in improving his teaching and is defensive or not receptive to what you're saying then it's time to move on. It means that he's taking his insecurities out on you. You should be treated with respect, so don't be afraid to ask this from your teacher.
-Laura
> Eric; it would be interesting to see how you'd "fix" me. ;)
"fix" you? i don't get it.... i'm not a teacher, i'm just a beginner at playing the violin.
Well, I did it. I went to a new teacher today. She teaches at the local elementary school and is totally non-threatening. I played a simple piece for her and I explained what I had learned in the past. She really didn't ask any questions and I didn't want to bias her opinion of how I played until later. She suggested that I go on to the next book (Suzuki 4) and learn shifting (thank God!!!)...I've been stuck at Young Violinists book 1 for a whole year due to lack of progress. It seemed odd that I was able to do 8 sets of 16th notes/bow, double stops and other technical stuff but my last teacher wouldn't teach me 3rd position. Very frustrating.
She wants me to practice the other books for warm ups and to get them smoother, instead of nitpicking every detail.
We're starting book 4 FINALLY and I'm learning 3rd position! Yippeee!
I asked her about my bowing since it was such a point of contention with the other teacher. She actually said it wasn't too bad and it would correct itself with more confidence. (I press too lightly and causes a squeaky, earie sound when I'm freaked out!) I was practicing martele forever it seemed.
I thought I was hopeless.
She had me do the shifting practice and I nailed it during my lesson so it seems things are improving already. :)
Just from observation, she doesn't seem prodigy caliber like my last teacher but who needs that when I simply want to play for my own enjoyment.
I'm actually excited to practice my new piece and hope to "please her". Haven't felt that way in a long time.
Ya'll have been a great support. Thanks.
Greetings,
its really good that you started shifting. Just bending and unbending the left elbow, moving up and down the violin from scroll to noseish is really importnat in the early stages to prevent students getting locked tight up in first position.
All the best,
Buri
Good for you! I'm so glad you took our advice and found a teacher who seems to be a better fit for what you want to do. Keep it up!
I've put some question (4 actually) in the beginner's grousing thread...unfortunately, I seemed to have locked it up...
Could you respond here?
My answers to your questions, AF:
1) If the orchestra director is allowing you to sit in with the group and everybody else is OK with you doing so, go ahead and do it. In order to not step on anybody's toes, put yourself at the last stand last seat. My belief is that unless there's a concertmaster obligatto or a definite pay hierarchy of seating, a section violinist in an orchestra should not care where he sits from a musical standpoint. The last player should play with just as much skill and concentration as the concertmaster.
2) I always advocate trying violins out in person simply because two violins by the same company can sound and look totally different. Besides, don't forget that you still have to get a case and bow and other stuff. By the time you add it all up, the difference in price between an online violin and one you buy at the local store is neglible. Also if anything isn't quite right with the instrument the local shop will usually take better care of you than an online outfit will.
3/4) Both of your concerns are merely conditioning issues. Violin is a very physically taxing activity, and your body needs a few years to grow into any technique. Just hang in there and keep fiddling away. AF, you probably won't even realize that you've grown into something until much later!
AF - First: YAY!!!! Sooooo glad you got away from the teacher. You sound like you're in a much better place, considering the comments you made here.
Second: You maxed out the Adult Beginners thread - no, wait, Buri got in #101 somehow. They tend to archive after 100, allowing for no more posts. So don't worry that you broke something.
Third: it just crossed my mind that all this progress you were making (including complaining about your vibrato) is pretty impressive for having only been at it for a year. Or wait. If you're normal, then I'm..... oh, God, it doesn't bear thinking about. The worst thing a beginner can do is measure their progress against a person who has been taking the same length of time. And yet, how easy that is to do...
Fourth - Hey, I'm a mom too, with a seven year old. Got a couple of moms here. Wonder why I thought the AF meant a male? Any chance you'd consider a first name so that we can better associate you with... well, who you are?! (You can lie. I just tend to like addressing ppl by names rather than initials.)
I'm violin hunting myself right now, as well. I plan on having it be a slow search. My starter violin has been a good friend, and while it will eventually show its limits (made more obvious every time I pick up and try out a higher priced violin), the comfort level is good. My vote goes for trying out violins locally. I'm a big supporter of local music shops. And the owner of my "local" is a luthier, so he's the guy who I'll go to with all my violin issues. Pays to make an investment there. My goal, as is my teacher's suggestion, is to try out lots and lots of violins before making a decision. Good thing I'm not in a hurry!
Best of luck to you, AF, and keep posting your news!
You think AF sounds male...then you need to hear my name! Ande! I get andre, andrew, andie, andy...I get so tired of explaining my name...I thought it would be easier to go with initials. ;) I guessed wrong.
Are you starting your 7yr old on the violin too?
My 6yr old really is too young. She holds her position for 5mins then turns into gumby.
Trying to get her to play Twinkle is mind numbing. I don't know how the teachers do it.
The new teacher was willing to teach my dd and she actually held her concentration (in and out) for the whole 1/2hr!
My 8yr old is in beginning orchestra. She is starting book 2 and actually sounds better than me. Probably cuz she is a HAM. Nothing bothers her and she loves playing in front of people.
Just the thought of it gets me thinking of Beta blockers!
As for being "so" far ahead...I played several instruments as a teen in band. That helps.
I took up the violin for a challenge...and what a CHALLENGE its been. ;) I think if I get a reasonable sounding note out of my squeaky violin...I'm good.
My violin also has issues of keeping my bow straight. I also notice the bow doesn't want to stay in contact with the strings when playing fast. I tell you...its ALL the violin!!!
Blameshifting works for me. Hence, I need a new violin too.
At least that's what I tell my dh. Hopefully, he believes me when I tell him the bill.
Greetings,
which just confirms that your teacher was incompetent. There is no excuse for allowing a student to continually produce bad sound on the isntruments. If the skill of playing is broken down into reaosbale step the studnet need barely produce a bad sound ever. Once gets comfort with the bow and psoture before the onerous looking but not task of combining left and right hand. You have had a lucky escape.v.commie to the rescue!
Cheers,
Buri
Buri
> You maxed out the Adult Beginners thread - no, wait, Buri got in #101
> somehow. They tend to archive after 100, allowing for no more posts.
Yeah, that sucks..... they should install vbb on this server or something.
Gee guys...make me feel bad....IT was BURIII!!!!
;)
we'll just have to keep it going. We can post here until someone hits 100 then we'll open another one.
whatcha think?
How about naming it the "violin journey (part 1, 2, 3 etc.)"...not very creative here, but you get my point.
If you keep at it and don't give up, you may or may not succeed in learning to play. But if you give up, it is 100% predictable that you will not learn how to play. Which choice do you want to live with? The uncertainty of whether or not you will succeed after all of that work and effort, or the certainty of not being able to play because you didn't pursue it? That's the choice.
Sandy
>My violin also has issues of keeping my bow straight.
Oh, LOL! Loved everything you wrote, Ande. (And trust me, with a first name like Terez, I get all sorts of interesting variations as well.) As for my seven year old, he would have NO patience for the violin (or perhaps it's just that Mommy would have no patience in trying to enforce practice time. Homework is a nightmare enough). But he loves his little recorder and the music the kids in his class worked on all year. He plays it w/o our suggesting it. Always a good sign. We'll see what next year brings...
And I hereby claim your thread as the "Violin Journey - Adult Beginner - Come Ask for Help Here" thread. Thanks for offering!
AF, You say you have been learning violin for over a year, so what do you expect? It takes a life time ! I would not change teacher after only one year, unless there was a definite personality clash. Persevere, you owe it to yourself!
Benny; you're a little too late.
As for perseverence; I practiced for 3hrs a day when I could after the kids went down. That's from 9-12pm (my poor husband). There are certain things that only time will straighten out, even I know that. I've been playing the piano since I was 8...lets see that makes it 32years. (gasp!) I have high standards for myself and frequently I have to say "take it easy" its for fun. I'm happy with my move, I'm excited about practicing again. Just for that gift, it was worth it.
>Persevere, you owe it to yourself!
Benny, with all due respect, did you read this thread carefully? And the comments both the old and the new teachers made to her; the positive way the first lesson with the latter went? If you're still thinking this was a perserverence issue, would you allow me to swing this frying pan against your head?
I'm sorry, that was uncalled for. But I'm feeling that same rush of adrenaline I felt when I read about the former teacher in the first place. Your advice might have well served a young student. But adult students, particularly ones with music under their belt, are doing themselves a grave disservice by sticking around once the love of music and the motivation is gone. And to think this former teacher would have rather had AF go down sinking, instead of bringing more music back into the equation! Sheesh.
Please excuse me, just had to jump up and down a bit.
Sheesh, Terez, don't let me get on your bad side.
;) I was cracking up! I didn't want to be rude.
Not everyone knows a "mom's" plight of "hard work" ethic.
We just drill it into our kids...we have none of our own, right? ;)
Haha, AF you really sound delightful! Kudos to you for working so hard on your violin playing. I would imagine it so hard to have that kind of discipline as a beginner. Since you have to remind yourself to take it easy and not be overly self-critical, you might try a little fiddle playing from time to time. Whenever I get bogged down with my classical playing and just need a break from practice to get some perspective and keep it fun, I pull out some fiddle tunes. I've done this with my students too. While you want fiddle tunes to sound good, the great thing is that there isn't as much of an emphasis on getting every single thing perfect. It's the imperfections that make it cool so you can losen up and have fun! Usually you'll find you'll play better that way too.
If you like fiddle music, give it a try from time to time. It's a blast!
-Laura
Laura - that's a cool suggestion!
Ande - yup, call it that mother bear instinct. : ) I do tend to make a strong impression on people, don't I? Meanwhile, Benny has gone off into hiding, probably muttering dark incantations involving my name. ((God, come to think of it, I got a stab of pain under my right shoulder blade while practicing tonight...))
I've been so busy lately with other things...I haven't touched my violin lately. Luckily, my teacher is on vacation for a week, so I'm safe for another few days. (whew)
I HAVE to practice!!...desire to and having time to...they seem to clash.
How are you working out your practice time?
A F,
I think you need a new teacher. No teacher should encourage their student to quit. If a teacher is frustrated with their student, it might be time for the teacher to suggest that the student move on. I had a teacher do that once when I was still starting out, it was one of the best things they did for me. Sometimes all a student needs to make a leap technically is for someone to explain things to them in a different way.
I checked out your find a violinist thing, and noticed that you lived in Santa Clara. My violin teacher lives on the peninsula, and if you are looking for a new teacher, she is a very encouraging and dedicated teacher. I know she has several adult students, as well as all of us younger people. Let me know if you would like her contact info. On the other hand, if you want to stay with your teacher, try going to a summer music program. I know they do have some for adults, but I am not sure about detals. Hearing things explained in a different way might help you understand better what your teacher is trying to explain.
Kelsey W.
Hi, AF! Congrats on the new teacher! In regards to practice time, well, I know what you mean about not having enough time, yet having that desire! I just recently (thanks to an article by Laurie Niles) :) decided to commit to practicing every single day. For me, that's a big thing, because I do so much (teach thirty students a week, perform gigs, compose/arrange on demand, write novels, and I'm going to grad school in the fall!!)
But I recognized that I didn't want to lose what I have, and I am determined to continue learning and improving. So, I don't give myself a pre-determined length of time (like, I must practice at least two hours). I do recognize when my most beneifical time of day is, though, and aim for that (I typically focus better and am more creative at night, for example). I usually end up practicing a few hours anyway, or at least an hour, because I get so excited about my progress, but the point is I do start the practice session, whereas I probably wouldn't if I knew I had to allow this certain, "enormous" amount of time in my schedule.
It's fooling myself into practicing. :0)
I also have in mind very specific goals for each session, so I'm sure not to waste any time. If there is something I need to get ready to perform, for example, I work toward that, or if it's a piece I've had my "ear" on and I want to tackle for my own edification or if I know somebody in the future is going to request it of me, then I focus on learning that. I keep my priorities straight of what I have to learn, how difficult it is for me personally, it's pitfalls, and when I have to have it learned. I also allow a relaxing fun time at the end: I love to fiddle and improvise (I can just throw on a New Age CD and go with the flow). Or, if my "work" was on a demanding technique, or a lot of fast notes, I finish with something slow and lyrical. Or vice versa, just to shake it up a bit.
Either way, I'm determined to keep my practice as innovative and interesting as possible. Even with the necessary repetition, with every attempt at a passage I look at it in a different way (why do I do this or that, what I can do different this time, what happens if I try this...).
Hope that helps! :) Good luck!
Great ideas! Thanks. I'm not sure if I can "fool" my mind...but here's to being sneaky.
;)
I'm marking off 15mins during the day. We'll see if it improves my playing.
I can't imagine how that works but okay.
Just getting through the warmups take 15mins. Do you do first day, warmups, 2nd day one piece, 3rd day exercises ?
What can you accomplish in a few minutes?
Greetings,
techncial and work on pieces can be split fifty fifty. This means that if you do three minutes practice then half of that would be on music.
You cna do a lot in 3 minutes if you spend time befor edeciding what exactly it is you wnat to achive during that time. `Working on a piece` does not constitute a good decision. It is better to work on only one aspect. For exmaple, I am goiung to practic eall the shifts. Or, I am going to play each note, one by one, until I can connect it to the preceding one perfectly in tune.
Cheers,
Buri
Buri, if I can practice all the shifts in 3 mins...I'd consider myself...AWESOME! forget practicing.
Practicing one scale takes 3 mins.
But I got your point.
Greetings,
why can`t you practic eall the shifts in a short piec ein 3 minutes? You only have to practice the note before and the note itself.
Hera the notes in your head. Sing them and then pracitce them slowly and then in various rythms with the lightest posisble touch on the stirng between notes. What could be more charming?
Cheers,
Buri
Yup, I sometimes do what Buri suggests, focusing on one aspect of a piece. Or what I've found to work for me lately, especially on this certain movement of a quartet I have to learn, is to spend my time analyzing and working out the details of, maybe, two to four measures. Then the next day, I do the next two to four measures, etc. Or, if there's a good solid phrase, I learn the details of that phrase.
(Details include, technique, phrasing, dangers, joys...everything!)
That way, I'm getting to know everything about those measures really well. Oh, and at the end of each session, I review what I did the last days, and try to put what I have so far together.
For me, this seems to be what my brain likes, at least currently. :)
Clarification: when I really "work a piece", I never simply run through it. I can never really know it that way. I gotta spend quality time with it... er, quality with what time I can arrange. :)
Oh, and sometimes, I may find myself splitting up the day, a half-hour in the morning, an hour in the afternoon in between lessons, another hour at night, whatever... But, lately, I've just been putting my practice mute on and practicing a couple hours around midnight. Hee hee...
I guess I misunderstood what a shift was. A note below and the note? I was thinking of going from 1st to 3rd position with each scale; G, D, A, E...majors/minors...didn't know how one does all those in 3mins and sound good.
I'll try your way of doing a few measures. Since I can sight-read most pieces, I play it through many times until I get it to the speed it requires (allegro, etc) and then if I can't get all the 16th notes fast enough I do the Galamian tech. After that, I put in the dynamics and my own version of "color". {mischievious grin}
My teachers never appreciate that part. Play it like it is! Do you know all the things you can do with a bow?
Obviously, its not working for me since my last teacher thought of more problems than I was aware of.
My new teacher is on vacation so that allows me another week.
She doesn't know all my bad habits yet...and hopefully, she won't ever know if I can just get it fixed.
So a mute is for damping the sound? I play at night when the kids are asleep. I may have to get one of those.
Does it sound like a "soft" pedal on the piano?
Question: I have a huge fear of messing up when playing for my teachers. Usually when the lesson is over, that's when I start playing normal. I've tried practicing for an hour before going in, but I still have issues (although not quite as bad) but still freak out. My last teacher asked me to get beta blockers. Seems a bit over the top for a lesson.
How does one overcome "critique" anxiety?
What you have to do is tell yourself that you are going to play the BEST THAT YOU CAN on this particular day - NO WORSE BUT ALSO NO BETTER. If that's not good enough for your revered teacher, listen and take in the constructive criticisms and suggestions, but don't take it personally. No matter how learned and experienced and talented and brilliant some teachers are, it doesn't mean they know how to motivate, inspire, support, or encourage a particular student - YOU.
> How does one overcome "critique" anxiety?
After two or three or 15 beers, you'll play just as good (or just as awful) but at least you won't give a flying ±£%¤¢¦¼ß%¤@ ..... =)
Greetings,
i would like to tentatively suggest that every issue and problem raise dhere could be nmeaningfully addressed using one book!!!!;)
That is Lewis Kaplan`s epic: Practicing for Artistic Success. The Musician`s Guide to sSelf Empowerment. In it he spells out just how pointless much of the work is we do and offers dozens of startegies for improving one`s playign in the most efificnet way posisble. In particular is ideas on the role of observation (one thing many people don`t do when they parctice) are seminal. In a nutshell we don`t listen to our playing effectively becaus e w e don`t know what to lsiten to and when. Since our listening is so vague we don`t identify the problem and therefor ecan`t begin moving towards soutions.Also brilliant on memorizing, rythnic contorl and so forth.
Cheers,
Buri
AF,
concerning practicing shifts, what I think Buri meant is that shifts only include two notes, the note you start on and the note you are shifting to. If you only practice the shifts out of context, it shouldn't take very long.
In addition, to make the best use of your time I would use practice spots, or "practice nuggets" as Rhonda Cole (a well-known Suzuki teacher) calls them. Don't waste time playing through pieces or playing entire sections. Instead play just the part that is bothering you, usually it's really only 3 to 5 notes, or a measure at most. After you've done good/correct repetitions of the practice spots then you can go through the whole piece or section or even do the phrase to put the practice spot into context. The key is to be able to practice things out of context before putting it back into context. Many people practice up to the mistake and then go back to the beginning of the piece/song or the beginning of the line, usually making the same mistake again. This is inefficient. I would have your teacher (when she gets back from her vacation) help you pick out the practice spots for efficient practice. She can also help you with other practice techniques that are effiecient. There's really quite a lot you can get done in 15 minutes if you are practicing efficiently.
-Laura
Hi, my name is Steve and I am almost 60 years old. I have been playing for 24 years as a fiddler, and getting to feel that I would never get it. Then, I bought a new violin at the store where we got my wife's new piano, and I got out the old 20 year old fiddle books and decided to, well, go by the directions and play every note and bow movement axactly as written. Eureka!! Within a week I had a break through. I began fiddling out of a shuffle and planning every bow stroke by keeping up the shuffle. All of a sudden I could actually play.
NOW I WORK ON THE BASICS IN BOOK #1. For over twenty years I memorized songs and was in and out with my dedication. But once I got a teacher and began working on technique, my sounds are more like music than ever and I like listening to myself play.
Now I have got a teacher and am working on a Bach piece and really loving it. Can you believe this, Bach? I have another new violin that is awesome, and SHERRY KLOSS, masters class student & teaching assistant to the great Jascha Heifetz, at the request of a mutual good friend, gave me a lesson last month! Wow, what an inspriration!
Sherry would never have taken me as a student were it not for our friend asking her to just help a little once a month, I am not of that caliber as a player, but she is awesome, and a wonderful and EXTREMELY UPLIFTING, SUPPORTIVE person. I am looking forward to our sessions in the future. I also take lessons from Tony at the local violin shop and he is a great help also, and keeps me down to Earth; a good thing.
The point is, as Sherry told me, my age is not a factor. My arthritis isn't a factor; only my passion is a factor. I know that I will never give a recital, but I may audition for the last seat in our small town orchestra in a few years, but the main thing is that I make my violin sound a little sweeter every day. That is the reward. That is the passion. THIS IS FOR ME!
Rethink quitting, rethink your goals. Joy is the reward if it is you that is being expressed. I found that I could not express myself with the violin until a few of the basic techniques were practiced. I won't say I have mastered anything.
One last quote, from my teacher, Tony, "Make every note you play sweeter than the last."
Good luck and I hope you can find YOURSELF in your music. I think you will like him (yourself) very much, and your violin will be happy too.
Steve
Ande - it's ALWAYS a terrible challenge to find time to practice. Did you read Sandy's article about "as little as 3 minutes per day"? It's still working for me on my two "off" days. (I find 45 minutes on the five "on" days, and try to sneak in more on wknds.) For me, it's just picking up the fiddle on the off-days and working those left fingers that keeps me in the zone for a few minutes (usually becomes 15, but I never pressure myself to do beyond 5 minutes). When I pick up the fiddle on the "working" days, it feels like less of a stranger, the way it can do when you miss a day. Amazing, really, how quickly the practice can become feral!
And hey, you're Santa Clara! I just love that there are so many CA people posting here. (Sarah, my in-laws all live in Claremont!) I'm just over the hill from you, Ande - in the Santa Cruz Mountains. What a small world.
Oh, and hi, Steve, and welcome!
I bought a NEW violin yesterday!!! I'm okay with it...although I'd prefer a $3000 one, I settled for a beginner outfit at around $1200; $800 for violin, $140 for case and $200 for bow. I originally went in to buy my daughter a new violin since she squeaks so much with the $10 one I bought at ebay. I couldn't justify spending over $4000 for both of us.
Someday, I may get my heart's desire, but til then, my violin sounds better than my rental. It's amazing what a new bow does to the right violin. I tried a few and there IS a difference.
The only thing now is, the violin sounds different now that I've played it at home. It was really loud at the luthiers shop. It sounds a lot softer...maybe there's an adjustment period. Temperature here is different too. Not by the BAY. I drove to Berkeley to get it.
sounds like you need a new teacher. Dont give up, i have faith in you. If you want to violin, i know youll master the technique eventually.
ALL violins sound different at home than at the luthier's shop, AF.
As long as you like the sound at home, you're OK. That's where you'll be spending the majority of your time playing your violin anyway.
Are you going to join that little orchestra that you asked about in your other thread?
I recommend you read the book "Never to Late". Maybe find another adult beginner and practice once a week together. I bought Mimi Zweig's (???) DVD on technique. It was great for me as a 40 something and did not contradict anything my teacher told me. I could stop it and play it over and over until I was comfortable.
Think positive, you have 9 years on me so your way ahead of the game.
Kevin; I've got family coming to visit. Mother is staying for 2 months and my in-laws are coming for a week during this time. I'm not sure if I can handle practicing when I'm up to my eyeballs with triple the family.
It's still under "discussion" with me, myself and I. It all depends on how insane things get...I may want to escape and be with the kids - who knows.
Yeah, I still like the sound. Its mellower.
The D string has a bit of an issue in 3rd position where my strings hit the G or A string if not on the perfect plane. THere's more leeway on the other strings...just the D ( high A,B,C doing a double stop with the G) grrrr...
Hi again! Sorry I'm a little delayed getting back to you about the mute, AF. In case you haven't already found out about it, there's a basic difference - that is, between an "orchestra mute" and a "practice mute". An orchestra mute is something you'll use when the music calls for "con sordino", and it dampens the bridge to dull/soften the tone color a bit. It's a little tiny thing that just sits on the strings behind your bridge until you need it.
The practice mute, however, which I use when playing late at night when I don't want to bother anybody, is a big ol' honkin' thing of either heavy rubber or *grin* solid metal (I go heavy-duty, I tell you what!). You carefully settle it on top of the bridge, it really swallows up the whole top of the bridge!, and it effectively dampens the whole sound. Yup, kinda like the soft pedal on a piano.
You should check it out. It really has helped me expand my practice time - without the guilt of disturbing my neighbors, too much. :)
AF,
my violin sounds different in every room of the house. The hallway is best--loud, clear and with a touch of reverb. The front room, with carpet, is dead and distressing.
To get a quick, free idea of how your violin will sound with a mute simply clip a clothes pin on each side of the bridge (in such a way that it doesn't interfere with bowing).
Ha ha, Ande - just asked you about your violin shopping on the other thread and got my answer here. So you went to Ifshin, I'm guessing? Let me know, either here or there, what your violin-shopping experiences were like.
I'm going to wait several months, I think, before buying a new violin, but I did decide to buy a new bow last week and WOW, what a difference from my lousy start-up bow. It certainly injected new life/sound into my little Chinese violin.
I got an entry level Jay Haide...simply because I can trade up in a few months when my daughter does (1/2 size to 3/4). By then I hope my husband will buy me another one. He's been eyeing my catalog and my birthday is in 2 months ;)
(are we allowed to mention store names here?)
some forums don't like you "advertising"...
Ifshins was recommended to me by my friend (who has a ton of experience) and my other teacher.
I figured I couldn't go wrong.
I'd rather go with reputation than my own judgement. My girlfriend had 4 kids and they all play $3000+ violin. She even has a 1/16 size. ITs so cute.
Her's of course is a "fine violin" category. She's been playing since childhood and makes me sick.
(I mean that in a good way) I went to her recital and my jaw dropped.
I am very happy with it...since it sounds better than my rental.
Got another question to throw out there.
I still have to use tape to figure out all the shifts. The tape causes the string to buz.
What else can I use without harming the fingerboard?
Since I'm a mom, I spend endless hours waiting for my kids activities.
Gymnastics, swim lessons, violin lessons, piano lessons,...
I thought for all the hours I spend sitting here, I could bring along my violin and practice.
Only problem is...I think people would mind. :)
Do you realize I could be doing 4hrs a day?!!
ANyone ever drag their violins everywhere they go? okay, I'm starting to sound like a fanatic here.
Greetings,
get rid of the tapes and use your ears. Violin playing is simply kineasthetic response to a mental model. IE you hear someting and then you move to it. So you sing where you want to go and then you try it. Is the note sharp orflat? Try to imagine how it would be when corrected -physically- Do it again. If youcasn"t sing where you want to go., or cannot tell if somethign is sharp or flat it doesn"t mean you have no talent. It just means that is an area you need to work on before playing the violin physically. It is all violin practice.
Cheers,
Buri
I would love to ditch the tape. Its annoying and I feel its a crutch.
Unfortunately, both violin teachers slap that puppy on the minute they see it naked.
They feel they would rather we hit the note right everytime while we're playing rather than learn to find it.
I was hoping for a compromise...perhaps, I need to put my foot down!
or better yet...my husband's size 13.5 foot down.
okay where is everybody?
Hi, AF: Are you being ignored? You say your train has left the station and you are the only passenger? You say no one looks up to you except your dog?
Well, let me respond to 2 issues: time management and motivation.
As far as time management goes, I've put this on other discussions, but when I was in graduate school (I'm a psychologist) decades ago, I worked out a system just for myself that got me through an incredibly hectic schedule and a lot of pressure and still managing to practice every day. I wrote it up as an article, and I am proud of the fact that it got written up in a music journal. Take a look at http://www.careermotiv8.com/practice-the-violin.html
As to motivation, there is something about playing the violin that I believe gets us in touch with a basic motivational issue. Ultimately, there is nobody who can force you to practice, especially after you've grown up. It is ALL a matter of self-discipline, and there are about a thousand reasons why it is very, very difficult to persevere. So you have to be your own cheering section and task-master.
Take a look at people who do this on a daily basis in other kinds of endeavors, for example someone with a neuromuscular disease. When I was a kid, my mother was the private secretary to a then world-famous pediatric neurologist. I grew up observing children (and adults) with cerebral palsey, muscular dystrophy, epilepsy, and similar problems. The amount of concentrated effort and work and toil so many of them put in on a daily basis to accomplish ordinary tasks (like walking and writing) that we take for granted was incredible.
It was very humbling. I learned something from being around them - If those people, with all they have going against them, can do it, then maybe I can do it. I learned that if with all of their problems they can come back day after day and "practice" all of those difficult tasks, then I can find at least a few minutes a day to practice the violin, or learn a difficult subject for school, or try some other new skill.
Learning the violin at any age is difficult as hell. But if that's what you want to do, then you can do it. The payoff isn't immediate, but it is very, very gratifying.
Hope that helps.
Cordially, Sandy
Hi, AF: Are you being ignored? You say your train has left the station and you are the only passenger? You say no one looks up to you except your dog?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gee, I wasn't feeling that bad until now! :(
Perhaps I need a dog.
Nicely said, Sandy. Just inspired me!
At 45 I am learning violin and Spanish and starting next week with be a ESL tutor for a family from Cuba.
Who says old cats can't learn new tricks?
I recently told my brother folks want more from me than I can give. Actually, I am flattered they see somethings I don't.
We can all do and learn a bit more.
Loved your post.
"Since I'm a mom, I spend endless hours waiting for my kids activities.
Gymnastics, swim lessons, violin lessons, piano lessons,...
I thought for all the hours I spend sitting here, I could bring along my violin and practice.
Only problem is...I think people would mind. :)"
...Good Grief! Does that ever sound familiar!!! LOL...but for what it's worth I agree with everyone else...never stick with a bad teacher...
I'm 44 and have been taking private lessons for 3 years (although I played a bit as a child) - with my scheduale it sometimes feels like I'm standing still with my progress on the violin and the viola...but when I think about it objectively I can see how much I've improved - in all areas - sight reading, bowing, dyamics, shifting, and overall tonality...
I also play with our community orchestra...and that helps HEAPS! Plus, it's lots of fun being a part of a large group...
Keep it up...no one has a right to tell you that you shouldn't enjoy the violin or playing it, no matter what level you're at...
Regarding tape, my teacher ripped mine off my rental on the first day. I suppose if your new teacher really wants it on, that's how it should be. Maybe set a time limit on it, tho? There's another thread somewhere about using tape vs not using it.
On your waiting-around time while your kids are in lessons - how about bringing music along to sight read? Although I think you might have said earlier that you're a fast reader. Can't help but think it would be hard to sustain concentration otherwise, though, unless you could find an empty room to practice your violin in. Then again, you could just work on fingerings w/o using the bow. I've done that before - I'm a person who needs to be doing something with my hands. Usually it ends up to be writing in a journal when I'm in public. But family visits are another story...
Okay, any adult beginners out there who may be reading this post, go check out my blog today for a laugh. It's my Top Ten Assumptions from June 2005 on what it would mean to pick up the violin.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my Gosh!!!! I had a good laugh...only because many of them were true for me as well.
10) That I could learn all I needed to know about being a violinist by taking four or five lessons.
8) That an investment of $250.00 in a violin was rather extravagant.
4) That after a year of lessons, I’d be able to play with vibrato.
3) That intonation was something you “got” after a few months, like the chicken pox or the clap, and then it was done and you could move on, issue addressed and conquered.
2) That after an entire year of study, I wouldn’t be a beginner anymore.
I totally related to these!
In fact, when I bought my new violin...he said...don't you think thats a bit steep? I handed him a catalog with violins in the 20K-40K range. He almost died. probably thankful I didn't go spend his money on something better.
And yeah...whats up with the vibrato. Why's it take so long?
The dumb tapes are embarrassing...telling everyone you don't have a good ear and still need finger tapes. I play the piano...there is no "WRONG intonation". There's only the right key.
You mean I can't learn how to play in a year?! But I'm a musician...I can play almost anything.
These were great. Thanks for a good laugh.
Each time I needed a new violin (1/2, 3/4, full size), I'm told my dad promptly died [out of shock of the cost]...
Hmm....
Ande - so glad you could relate to my "assumption" list - I had a lot of fun with your reaction. : )
Only thing more fun than being an adult beginner is being an adult beginner with adult beginner buddies! (And if that made sense to you out there, it's because you're as tired and/or brain dead as I...)
Carley; what's worse is having 3 of us that need violins. :( I think I need a defibulator next to my husband, the next time we go shop for violins. I hid one in the hall closet and waited a day to bring it out...to ease the shock.
Your dad must have 9 lives...he's died 3 times so far.
Terez; I understood...:(
that's not good.
Although I did not read all the messages and perhaps someone suggested the following already I 'll give my pound worth... Buy a book with a CD and choose a good tune and keep playing it on your own till you really got it.Move on to the next one etc. It will give you pleasure to play on your own. No one should give up We all go through those stages where nothing sounds right.I'm sure you did not start the violin with the thought of becoming a soloist. So play to please yourself. I love it and started 3 years ago at 64 years of age and no one will ever be able to stop me, O.n bad days I just walk my dogs and forget about the violin. So go on It is a challenge.
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June 7, 2006 at 08:02 PM · hello
starting at late age is hard, also you probably think you're sounding worse and worse becausing your awareness and listening skills are being developped, i think that although basics are essential they must kept in context of "music", which is the primary reason why you wanted to play.
also a year is terribly short amount of time in violin years, i wouldn't expect too much too soon.
Have you spoken to your teacher about this? if you already have, you may wanna think about trying out a new teacher with a different teaching method.
good luck