Muso muses
The thread about musical couples (sounds like a party game) which descended into a celebrity musathon got me wondering more specifically about musicians and their muses. Does anyone here have one? Fantasy/real? Male/female? Distant/close? Musical/not? You needn't go into detail if you'd rather not, but I bet it would make good copy:)
Replies (51)
Sue, thanks for starting this thread. I have no understanding of how a muse inspires someone, and I hope to learn a lot.
Let me try to explain "muse" as I believe it is being used here, since this is something I've been thinking on much lately, and was getting ready to write something in my blog about it.
What better inspiration for creating music is there than love? You've perhaps experienced the student who would bend over backwards for you because they have a secret crush on you, right? Or perhaps you hear a recording of a violin concerto that absolutely moves you like nothing else, and that passion feeds you for months or even years as you practice in your studio.
Music in itself can be the muse. It can take the form of a life-long goal piece, or just a brief fling with a fugue that you can't seem to stop playing. For my students, most of the time, inspiration takes the form of a song that they really like the sound of, and the desire to make the music is so strong that they can come back in a week and be a completely different musician because of it; they devote hours to learning the piece, when before, they wouldn't touch their instrument. I'm on a constant search for pieces that inspire. It's a pure-music-muse, I guess. My personal long-term goal piece that has served as my "muse" in this sense is Saint Saen's Intro and Rondo. But this is not a personified muse.
A personified muse, in a way, plays the same role as a musical inspiration. I try to be an inspiration myself for my students by being positive, fun, driven, and passionate about music. It rubs off. I get more out of them by inspiring them than by criticizing them into the ground. In this case, I'm trying to be their personal muse (in a non-romantic kind of way).
So, we're focusing on the muse that is someone--familiar, ideal, or even fiction--that inspires. Think of it as a crush, a flame, or a life-long passion.
My personal muse is a real person--now idealised because of complete unfamiliarity and physical expanse--that once was my childhood figurative musical hero, and literally the boy down the street. He means absolutely nothing to me now... except that he has always been an underlying reason I strive to create music, and shows up randomly as a symbol in my music-related dreams. Therefore, he must be a muse. He is entwined in the subconscious part of my being, and can be fed or denied at will, but never dies.
How does the muse work? Often times, it's simply that I imagine I'm playing for him, I guess to please him. I think I imagine this every time I practice, come to think of it. It helps me along to pretend that I have someone of importance to impress, a significant ideal to appease. It could never work with a concrete reality; it's the embodied ideal that appeals.
Am I explaining the definition of a muse accurately, or is this just me and my weird, insane obsession?
Oh Emily i feal just as confused as you. Muse brings up so many different feelings for me. Not even considering music muses are all around us. I will tell you all a little tale that happened to me some time ago but has stuck. I was waiting outside of maccas on a corner for my mum to pick me up one night and a boy walked past with his family and he was just so adorable i couldnt help smiling, he smiled back. About 5 mins later i saw him again and he walked towards me and my heart started racing... then my mum beeped the horn and shouted for me to hurry. I just got up and walked to the car because i didnt know what to do. That was almost 3 years ago and for some reason that boy has become my muse for love. He is everything i seek out in a person that i believe i can spend the rest of my life with.
Erghh this topic will make me waffle on i can tell. Musically however i can think of three things that truelly inspire me. Emily talked about love being the ultimate muse which i have to say i disagree with. It's passion that ultimatly inspires. Whether you love or hate or admire, they're all powerful feelings that drive us. It all comes down to passion nothing inspires me more to be a great violinist than to have an argument with my best friend (a very talented pianist) over which instrument requires more talent and what not. Or even talking to somone who is passionate about their job it really gets me going.
Then come my teachers. My first teacher taught me to love music. It was very cool when i would get to a climax of a piece and she'd demand me to pull a face (you know those kind of faces you pull when you really hit a musicgasm) I didnt understand at the time but even the act of pulling those faces really made me feel free with music. My second teach, a complete idot lol he inspired me to not be as completly hopeless as him. He taught me to challange authority when i thought i should. well he didnt teach me that i jst did it cause i hated him. And my current teacher *tear*, she taught me so much more than anyone. She taught me that my hard work pays off and it's all worth it. Not two weeks ago she said to me "all that you've done over the last couple of months has really inspired me." Hehehe i guess what i'm saying is one of the most inspiring things is to inspire somone else.
My third muse LOL. The Bach double violin concerto in d minor 2nd movement played by david and igor oisterach (sorry about the spelling) and extremly romantic interpretation but a beautiful one none the less. I would have to say bach in general is my third muse because early one in my musical life i heard the "mighty chaconne" and from then i was determined to play his solo sonatas. It's only very recently have i imersed myself in the e major and i'm loving it. along with some other movements.
Anyway, muse...? Anyone seen the Hercules cartoon from disney. The muses sing pretty cool songs.
luke, you said, "i guess what i'm saying is one of the most inspiring things is to inspire somone else." I agree. I can't tell you how much I've been inspired just from teaching lessons!
The word passion to me is encompassed in the word love. You kinda gotta stretch out the boundaries to fit it in, and perhaps it doesn't quite include hate, since those two are mutually exclusive, but the passion I feel when I play is part of the love.
Too bad the word "love" has been overused so much. It just don't mean a thing any more.
I have two students and i only teach the earlier grades. it's kinda a apprenticship thing my teacher and i have going on and next year i've decided i'm gonna take on students and hopefully have them long term. But yeah teaching is amazing. Especially when you find things that make your kids tick.
But as for that love stuff lol i dont really have anything to say to it. i'm 18 everything is love at this age. *angelic face*
Emily,
I agree. I sort of feel that love completes me in a way and that inspires me to be more than myself.
Here's a cute story of a musician muse in the past for me:
I was a recalcitrant violin student (my mom made us all pick an instrument and we had to play). There are some very good youth orchestras in LA and we started playing in youth orchestra our first year of study. I moved up to the top one in the graded system quickly and I was assistant concertmaster to Andres Cardenas (took third place in the Sibelius I think and plays concertmaster of ? big orchestra and teaches at Indiana U last I heard). He is the cousin of Dylana Jenson too. In other words, he was a prodigy type kid and a great violinist. Since I hated practicing, I hated all the things I needed to practice - all the hard parts of the music.
But everytime we'd hit a hard section, Andres would light up! One day I must have said something about hating a spot because he said to me, "No, that's FUN!!" I looked at him in amazement that he could think something so hard was FUN! lol I always remember that now and from that day on, I had a different perspective on music and playing the violin. :0)
Lisa
why did you get a little cross thing. i like that story. i have the same thing in my trio. i play second violin and the two other girls are amazing musicians. the first violinist and ex student of my teacher, when i was having trouble would read her part and play it and also read my part and hum it as she's playing so i could follow along. this girl is now studying baroque opera at the moment and i admire her so much. but yeah like you're little story in some of the stuff we would play i would forget about all the little trills and stuff and she told me " dont worry i'll play all the fun little things!" which really got me into gear.
errr a non sensical response. it's getting late i'm sorry.
just had to say great thread btw!
this is like the weirdest thread ever....hahaha
I strongly believe that Lisa's post does not deserve an X. Whether one agrees with it or not, one should respect an honest opinion that is well expressed. I'm still struggling with the concept of muse and I find everyone's personal stories interesting and helpful.
Several people have written of a muse as someone you try to please. Would that be a parent or a teacher for anyone?
I think I can understand Bach as a muse. I'm drawn to his music as an ideal. I know I won't reach that ideal state but just trying makes me feel good. His music is always just right for me, year after year, in good times and bad, in any of my moods. His music is always new and fresh for me, no matter how many times I've heard or played it. A journalist once asked Casals why he played so much Bach, and Casals replied, "Because Bach is my best friend."
I hope I inspire my students but I don't understand the concept of my students inspiring me.
Emily, I like your perspective of love as an inspiration, a goal, and something to immerse oneself in. At least, I think that's what you meant. Thanks. I need to be reminded of it frequently.
I wondered if this thread would go anywhere... sometimes what seems highly relevant to oneself means absolutely nothing to everyone else. So far, well... Emily, I sometimes think we must inhabit parallel universes!
Luke, your story reminded me of a mutual attraction with a lovely stranger walking up my street, but I was late for work and couldn't stop. I looked out for him for six lonely months (including an embarrassing incident with someone I *thought* was him - don't go there)... Then, on the eve of my graduation, I was driving my parents to their hotel. We stopped at a gas station and I was filling her up - when I saw my guy across the street. Of course my hands were tied, and I left university and moved back home the following day:(
I suppose most people have a 'one that got away', like Luke's and Emily's. I wonder if these figures make up the majority of muses? Emily, your way of describing the idealisation of such a person is spot-on; well, I mean I can relate:) I agree that a muse inspires. But having said that, I myself would go with Luke's definition of passion, encompassing emotional polar opposites as equals. Sometimes I'm inspired by anger, or sorrow, or excitement; it's not all a derivative of love - well, I don't recognise it as such.
Pauline, you were asking about Lisa's mystery demerit. I don't understand it either, nor Erika's. At this point it seems to me that some posts should be demerited but aren't, and some are which shouldn't be... and although incensed when I get demerited for no reason, where others' posts are concerned I'm just kind of ignoring the markings, since they seem to mean nothing anyway.
I find I really need like to like whatever I'm playing. If I don't have that conviction and commitment to a piece of music, I don't practise it as much, I don't perform as well and I give less of myself when playing it. Case in point: I'm playing the Franck Sonata for an exam on Wednesday. To start with, I wasn't enjoying the last movement much. I'd heard it too many times, too many people play it, and there are too many not quite satisfying recordings. I played it reluctantly. However, this evening I was rehearsing it with the pianist and everything seemed to click. We were 'in the zone', and I began to love the music I was playing, marvelling at the chords and structure, and just the sheer beauty of it all. I began to relax and really enjoyed myself. I think I played much better too, and more confidently.
I've also noticed that the more goodwill you feel towards those you're playing with and your audience, the better you play. I can't stand playing in orchestras or chamber groups (despite the music) when there is a particular personality that I dislike. That really puts me off.
Another muse of mine: clear, balmy evenings. I love playing in rooms with plenty of natural light in them; it makes a huge difference to my mood which really affects the way I play.
Carl.
PS Pauline, I suspect that Lisa's demerit had nothing to do with the content of her post. It's really pathetic.
People who have no idea how they do what they do, who do it naturally, and sometimes appear too innocent to realize what they have going. I buy the drinks and pick their brains.
I notice your defenses are high against the same being done to you Jim.
Any reason for that ?
What?
I strong source of motivation/inspiration for me posting is for one day to have many stars next to my name... *tear*
(someone give me one!)
I don't have one. Eat a donut. They're also good.
Actually, to follow the proper guidelines of muses, eat the donut, but while you play, think about the donut hole that got away.
Tell us more about the guy, Emily. I know you want to.
Simply this Jim ,
Interest without committment is what you seem good at ,Jim.
Sorry I don't meet your standards. I'm sure you could be committed.
My family my wife, my kids and my dogs are my muses!
PS: Watch it Buri!
PF
Greetings,
you mean there is a video featuring your nefarious canine activities?
Cheers,
Buri
LOL You are nutzzzzzzzzzzz!
PF
Emily, Mr Muso Muse clearly inspires your poetry also... I think I'll embroider your little ditty into a cross-stitch sampler and hang it on my music stand. And pass it onto my grandchildren.
Lisa and Erika have lost so many points that when they post they have the automatic demerit by their name. That is the explanation for the "mystery" demerits. Only about four people in the history of this board have earned this distinction. If they post something non-offensive and are graded up, that helps them earn back some karma. If it goes the other way, losing more points with offensive posts, anyone with such a low number of points is close to losing posting privileges. Back to muses?
Ah, I didn't even notice it rhymed.
So, if the love thing isn't all-encompassing enough, I suppose I need to reinvestigate. I think I notice that love seems to cause all those other emotions, too, especially after heart-brokenness. Then there's plenty of sorrow, rage, etc.
Jim, I've told about all I should. You never know who lurks around here. ;)
(Just picture the scenario with Charlie Brown and the Little Red-Haired Girl.)
This is something I've gathered from my brief experience with romance. There were many who served as an Ideal, and only two that I actually had a relationship with. The first Ideal broke my heart because I put him on a pedestal and expected him to be everything for me. He couldn't stand the worship I was giving him and split. He was the first true heartbreak, and I was 20. The second Ideal really enjoyed his pedestal and took full advantage of it. I worked and worked and fretted and grovelled and basically blackened my knees with all the "I'm not worthy" crawling around that I did. This time, I was the one who split--decided he wasn't all that after all.
Once I figured out that no one was going to be that Ideal for me, I discovered George, who was quite happy to be my equal, and we get along mostly just fine. He never was the Ideal to me, but it was nice to marry someone who wasn't sitting above me on a pedestal. He actually happens to be very ideally suited for me. Our qualities and imperfections are a good match. And when I try to turn him into an Ideal, this is when I'm the least content and angry at him for not being perfect. At the same time, it is also when I'm the most critical about myself.
My theory about the muse is that if it represents ideal, perfect love, it must remain untarnished by personal intimacy because people are flawed. Life has flaws. It never is perfect in reality, never goes the way you think it should go. Even if, hypothetically, the muse was actually perfect, I'm not. So, the thrill of imagining is that in my mind everything can play out perfectly. In my mind, I never miss a note. And that's the usefulness of the muse, because it creates the drive to be perfect that fuels the practice sessions.
The word "muse" also can be used as a verb to mean "to meditate" or "to be lost in thought."
I'm certain that other people have muses that have an entirely different role, and I'm hoping some others can chime in. I was just pouring out thoughts and theories about my personal experiences, which I probably shouldn't be so open about, actually. I guess I was just hoping some other people might relate.
I can certainly relate ,Emily .I also share your concern about overopenness There are those that ask for trust ,that cannot commit..
I like your points about pedestals .
An ancient central asian muse most apparent that separates the best of both ( real and imaginary ) worlds is "sofia" .Interesting translation as intuitive wisdom ,in greek NT
Staggering that it's root is found 5000 years before sumerian 'deities' , in Kali ,goddess of death.Cybele is the grecian translation.
Wierd that the roots of fantastic violin playing can be traced from NW India ,right along the silk trail to spain.
Strange that those most willing to abandon overcontrol play the best.
But than I'm not sure this thread is about playing ?
And now ,Jim ,to avoid the sense of voyeristic muse appropiation
why dont you share with us the centred ,committed ,and reflexive nature of your muse(s) ?
Emily, it sounds like nobody ever put you on a pedestal till I came along.
From Jim W. Miller
Posted via 172.162.112.63 on April 23, 2005 at 12:57 PM (MST)
>People who have no idea how they do what they do, who do it naturally, and sometimes appear too innocent to realize what they have going. I buy the drinks and pick their brains. <
From Mark N
Posted via 212.45.41.81 on April 23, 2005 at 2:09 PM (MST)
>I notice your defenses are high against the same being done to you Jim.
Any reason for that ?<
Jim was speaking on topic, and I understood clearly what he was talking about. I think that responses like Mark N's constitute flaming (unwarranted attack) and such posts should be part of the guidelines for demerits. They certainly cause me to hand out demerits, irrespective of the guidelines.
About Lisa, unconfortable as it makes me to discuss personal stuff like this in public: As one who has clashed with Lisa and given her approximately three or four demerits in the past (for flaming), I want to speak up for her now. I think she has really improved her public demeanor since that time a few months ago. I believe she took parts of the public criticism to heart and has largely mended her ways, condescending as this may sound to some people. As one who also has a fiery temper and strong opinions, I value most of what she has to say in her erudite posts and understand how easy it is to offend people with strong statements.
Other than adding new stars to a demerited poster, couldn't we have a way to wipe somebody's slate clean if they genuinely turn over a new leaf? In Lisa's case, nothing would be more appropriate than that.
-Scott H.
I am requesting good old Jim to share his passion a little more mutually for muse ,amongst other things .
I would doubt the wisdom of drinking in public or private ,(as my mama told me always to be careful of strange men) with us all ,as a means of preventing the charge of voyeristic muse appropiation ( mental undressing with/from /at another in public) from actually being attributed to his silence on the subject . But ,thanks for your honest concerns ,Scott .
What you are trying to say is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, to me at least.
Emily,
I'm fascinated with how you see perfection as intertwined with muse. You said, "My theory about the muse is that if it represents ideal, perfect love, it must remain untarnished by personal intimacy because people are flawed. Life has flaws. It never is perfect in reality, never goes the way you think it should go. Even if, hypothetically, the muse was actually perfect, I'm not. So, the thrill of imagining is that in my mind everything can play out perfectly. In my mind, I never miss a note. And that's the usefulness of the muse, because it creates the drive to be perfect that fuels the practice sessions."
I started thinking about this, after a long conversation with a friend who is helping me sort through all of this mess, and realized that I want to practice after I have had that feeling of connection with real relationships and real people. To me the muse is not in perfection or idealized love but actual, realized love. The experience of breaking through all the "stuff" we all put out there to cloak/block/protect ourselves from relationship is the moment of muse for me. It is the moment of true connection - of "sofia" or wisdom (if I could steal from Mark).
So I don't think the idea of muse has to remain untarnished by personal intimacy just by virtue that there are flaws. It is in the flaws that true intimacy is found, and therefore true union, which is what we are seeking through a muse, right?
In a way, isn't that what Carl was saying too when he said that the experience of unity with his pianist made the whole experience (music, playing, attitude) come together? There was just a kind of connection in that moment that created an inspirational experience. And isn't that connection a real one and not an idealized perfection?
Anyway, just from the mundane part of it... I used to practice for perfection too. For me, that isn't possible and sets up a cycle of constant disharmony. Now it is seeming good to me to practice out of that unity rather than the idealism of possibility. That is what I wrote about in the thread on sound (titled "Interesting CD"). If my goal is unity (my muse), then I practice meditatively/musingly trying to break through the flaws and get everything - hands, heart, movement, posture, stick, hair, and wood, everything - working together. My goal is that once having achieved that I can achieve it again and again. The connection, once experienced, becomes my muse and beckons me to try to live there all the time. The flaws are only clues to me to move back into that state.
Lisa
Muso muse: like Emily's, an idealised figure derived from a childhood musical role model; so, once real, now fantasy. Male. Physically close yet, truthfully, mentally/emotionally distant. Musical, but not a string player. And, crucially, I suspect it was mutual.
I think for me the notion of muse has something to do with acceptance which would seem impossible in reality. As one who consistently strives for acceptance on many levels, the ability to remain distant from my muse - thus preserving the idealism, as Emily suggests - diminishes the possibility of rejection, and enables me to play fully in a way I feel I cannot in the face of others' judgement. Of course this is predominantly about my inner critic; the fantasy of being musically (and the rest...) acceptable, to someone I have felt to be part of myself, seems to go some way towards validating my own self-worth also.
That is one hell of a posting ,Lisa.
pity the code (C++) wasn't as pure as the muse's flaws.
power to remove this posting has been denied for purposes of Scotts gratification
It was a double post
Connection, in my own personal experience which is probably different from that of others, is probably the "muse" for me. It is a connection within, indefinable but recognizable, and when with others or another in a musical connotation which is even more rare, then I suspect that there is a mutual connection-within for each that then fuses into a whole. It is that, also, which seems to bring a wholeness to the separate elements of the making of music and an unsuspected ease where there should not be any. I think I can relate to what you are writing, Lisa. I believe, though, that these things are very personal, very private and very individual, each having his own "muse" to his "muse-ic" and so they may be different for each of us. The Muse seems to be a very private and secretive individual who does not take kindly to being talked about, at least mine is. He lets his presence known, however, through the music or the art itself in the fact that he wakens up a great many muses in other individuals. An old man with a white beard who had been sleeping under a tree wearing a tuxedo on a hot Sunday afternoon a long time ago once told me, "You must make the singer sing."
The other that Emily and others talk about I would call my "inspiration". I read an account about an inherited box that symbolizes to me a bygone age, and this box inspires the idea to write a certain short story. I woke from a dream and jotted the first five notes of the dream's melody, remembering the direction the mood and symbolism, and determined to recreate something based on that theme in a composition. The box and the five notes are the inspiration. When they take off and I no longer know where I am, and when I am finished and there is a shine in the reader's or listener's eyes, that was the muse.
Mark and Jim, I don't understand your posts. Perhaps you'd like to confine your in-jibes to private emails between yourselves? We've got enough demerits kicking around as it is.
My posts are like the majority here, Sue. Nothing arcane about them.
Apologies, Jim: I presumed you understood the overtones.
From Mark N
Posted via 212.45.39.33 on April 24, 2005 at 4:16 PM (MST)
>power to remove this posting has been denied for purposes of Scotts gratification
It was a double post<
Pardon me Mark, but nothing you write makes any sense to me. Are you insane? Somebody demerit me!
Respectfully Submitted,
-SH
Translation: I think that it originally said something else and that there was a purposeful double posting in order to counteract the demerit game since twice as many demerits are needed to demerit a double post than to demerit a single one.
This was about what - muses?
Thank you Inge. It was I who gave him a demerit. So, he removed his own demerit? What a system! Gawd help us all.
ROFL
Just confused...but lol.
the meritious meritting a demerit demerits the merit system?
More confused than usual,
Off for some demerol
Burp
erghhh not even bothering to read the new posts. really over this thread lol.
What? You don't enjoy watching train wrecks?
Dear violinistic friends,
After reading the entire fingerboard tape thread, I wish to withdraw my ill-advised post regarding Lisa Marsnick. It made me sick to my stomach. To me, arrogance is one of the worst sins one can commit on a message board.
-Scott
are you still on topic Scott?
you posted a flame ,on a muse thread.
You confused the thread.You dont need to justify yourself here ,Scott.
You're amongst friends ,after all.
This muse thread has been mistaken for an amusement park!
Music is the muse for my artwork.
The opposite is often true, as well.
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April 22, 2005 at 12:24 PM · My muse for playing violin I think is many things. I love teaching and I am inspired when I see one of my students really have an AHA! moment and make some significant progress in some way and you see the pride in their face. This reminds me what music is about (to me) and in turn inspires me to keep striving every day to do my best too. I often get reminded by my mother or other non-musicians who hear me play just what a gift playing can be...they aren't hearing my little mistakes, but hear music in general and just realising what a gift I have that I can pick up a violin and play what I want makes me happy. Having a good sense of self and belief in yourself is also a good way to be inspired in music-making.