Studying violin from an adult piano player's perspective

August 28, 2009 at 2:09 PM

I started the violin in June of this year.

I have always wanted to learn to play; but there was never enough money for music in our household -- I learned the piano at my grandmother's house on visits from watching others play, and did not have lessons until I was well past childhood.

Upon learning that I was picking up violin, friends and family members said, why bother? you already play the piano well, just stick to that! Well.. yes, I am still studying the piano, but I would like to also learn the violin. You are never going to become great at violin, it's too late. Yes yes, but that's not the reason I want to play it --- I want to play violin because I love how it can sound, and I want to make it my own sound, my own violin music. Is that so wrong?

This blog begins then in the middle of my late start. My teacher has me studying out of the Suzuki book series along with the CD. At first I was a bit perplexed, since I've heard Suzuki is primarily used for kids who can't read music -- and I can read music --- not at the simplicity of the material, but because he asked me to memorize the pieces and listen/play along to the CD. But... I already read music!

Intonation. On a piano, the concern is to hit the right key the right way, at the right time, in the right manner, and overall create a beautiful interpretation. On a violin... where's the damned frets? The delusion that getting the notes right would be relatively easy after easily learning guitar in college was quickly swept away by my teacher, who kept barking, you're flat, you're sharp, you're off by quite a bit in the middle of that measure. Not to mention the fact that when I start concentrating on exactly where my fingers are and what sounds they are producing, my bow arm starts misbehaving. It's a lot more complicated than piano, but then again --- I don't actually remember beginning to learn to play the piano since I started when I was three, or so I was told.

I switched violin rentals recently because my teacher discovered a couple of weeks ago that there was something wrong with my previous violin, specifically the A string, and recommended either getting the string replaced or getting the violin changed. I opted to get a "better" violin outfit at a higher rental price because it sounded much better. It also feels like I can get more variation of sound out of it. I would love to buy a nice violin, but we don't have the money for that right now.

Since the switch, I've had intonation problems on the A string, specifically with C# and D. I've been using an electric tuner while playing A-C#-D over and over to get a feel for what the latter two notes should sound like, and it seems to be helping. I've also been practicing the piece I'm supposed to learn while glancing at the tuner every now and then to make sure it's hitting that green light in the middle. How in tune is being in-tune, exactly? I should be hitting the middle line every single time I play a note, right?

To complicate things, the "perfect" D is very close to the "perfect" C# for my fingertips; I either have to wedge the ring finger firmly against the middle, or place it without placing the middle finger down.

Another area I'm having problems with is the space between the notes. I can do a passable staccato, but my legato isn't quite legato and I'm getting some squeak when moving between strings. Teacher said you're supposed to pause the movement of the bow as you tilt it down onto the next string so it doesn't make that noise, but that all happens in the blink of an eye and doesn't happen often for me.

This whole deal of both arms doing completely different things (the bowing versus the fingering) feels alien -- I'm used to having both arms essentially doing the same thing, except the fingers doing independent movements. There's certainly a lot more to watch out for in violin --- is this something that becomes natural, second-hat, after enough time and practice? I hope so.

From David Rowland
Posted on August 30, 2009 at 3:49 AM

Hi Anna!

Welcome to the world of the violin! I'm an adult learner as well. I have the advantage of having played as a kid then picking it up again as an adult. Yes, it does get easier. Most of the things you are talking about do become second nature over time.

Just as you have difficulty understanding how some one can do two completely different things with each hand, I often marvel at how a piano player can play different keys with each hand.

One does have to develop an ear to get intonation correct. Fortunately, there are some aids out there. My teacher had me put a "Don't Fret" finger board template on my finger board. This template his lines that help to quickly find the notes. They cost between $5 and $8. The adhesive shouldn't harm your rental instrument.

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on August 30, 2009 at 6:37 AM

Greetings,

>I've been using an electric tuner while playing A-C#-D over and over to get a feel for what the latter two notes should sound like, and it seems to be helping.

I don`t personally encourage this kind of dependency on a tuner at this stage. I suspetc it might actually be detracting from training your own mind and the kinethetics of playing. The mind can only really fosuc on one thing and if it is on the green light of a tuner I don`t think the attention is where it should be. Try the following exercise:

Play a long opne d string. Five seconds or whatever.

Take the bow and the left and completley away from the instrument. You ca do this with theleft handif you use a shoulder rest. At the same time mentally hear the octave higher d in your head. This thinking time can be fairly long if you so wish.

Now place the left hand finger and bow simultaneously and just play. Under no circumstances move the left hand finger about. This will develop bad technique. Evaluate the intonation. Is it sharp or flat? To what degree? Repeat the procedure trying to get closer to the ideal.

Practice this technique with other open strings and other fingers. A little everyday wil benifit your accuracy a lot. Also check out Drew Lechers blogs on repetition hits. If you don@t understand the cocnept then read my blog called something like `A humble stab at repetition hits` which was a sort of `dummies guide to repetition hits.`

Cheers,

Buri

From Bart Meijer
Posted on August 30, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Hi Anna,

I just tried Buri's exercise. It is definitely not for the faint of heart! Don't get discouraged. I'm going to practise this exercise too.

A couple of years ago I started learning the piano as an adult, having played the violin from the age of seven. As you wrote, the issues it presents are totally different from those of the violin. It helped me to practice the violin immediately before playing piano: that made it easier to focus. I wonder if the reverse might apply to you.

And -- others, please tell me if I'm mistaken -- as to telling what is in tune, it is best to rely on your ear, and to check against an external standard, such as a tuner, or Jerry Agin's program Intonia, only occasionally.

Good luck!

Bart

From Michael Felzien
Posted on August 31, 2009 at 10:36 PM

Anna,

For me one difference is in the way you think about music as a pianist versus a violinist. When I play the piano I'm always thinking that proper actions cause the music (as you said, “hit the right key the right way, at the right time, in the right manner, and overall create a beautiful interpretation”). On the violin it is more anticipatory. You need to create in the minds eye (or minds ear) the pitch before it is played. You concentrate on the sound and when it is sounding “in tune”. This is different from the piano. You also learn that nothing is ever really in tune and that there are tricks and ways of adjusting your tuning very quickly. Carl Flesch wrote two very good books on the violin you should get them called, “The Art of Violin Playing”. I’ve read most of Book I and a little of book II.

If you find that a particular exercise starts to bore you, just turn them into tonal studies or bowing studies, that way you can always be learning for the minds eye. I know others here can explain this more completely, but, it is very exciting that you are learning the violin. There is so much great music for both instruments. Good practicing! Thank you.

Mike Felzien

From Anne-Marie Proulx
Posted on September 1, 2009 at 2:59 AM

Hi, I always use a piano to check my intonation. If you have a good ear, you immidiately know if you are in tune or not. Also I am a big advocate to follow the soo useful (i swear they are...) ear training lessons but as a pianist who started at tree I'm sure you have ear training knowledge? And it is always good to know the spacing and relations between the fingers on the fingerboards when you play something. My teacher always say when you have two fingers placed on two different strings to play something " what relation would they have if they would be on the same string..." Depending on the answer (tone, semi-tone, 1 1/2 tone etc) you immidiately see mentally the spacing between these two fingers. Seems childish but to always think of what is the relation between two notes (or two fingers placed at the same time or one after an other) is not that easy while thinking of 10000 other things. But it is a very usful trick according to my teacher and she is write. If I'm too lazy and don't do it, it SHOWS.

Piano people must be "geniuses" to read and play so many notes at the same time.

Violin people must be "geniuses" to build their sound from scratch. (this is only my opinion!!! )

Maybe pianists are more like artistic mathematicians and violinists like rational poets??? I don't want to start a war... this is why I told "maybe" : )

Bravo to pianists and violinists!!!

Anne-Marie

From Pauline Lerner
Posted on September 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM

I commend you for starting violin lessons as an adult in spite of all the people who say, "No! It can't be done." In music, one must follow one's heart. If you grow to love your instrument, then the key to learning is persistence over time.

I teach beginning students, and about half of my students are adult beginners. They're fun to teach because they get such a kick out of making small increments of progress. Several of my students have told me that they've called their mother on the phone long distance to play Twinkle.

I recommend my website and especially my page on adult beginners, http://mysite.verizon.net/paulinefiddle/ab.html . I can and should add some more true stories about my adult beginners.

I agree strongly with Buri: Don't use your electronic tuner to monitor your intonation while playing. I want my students to learn pitch by ear, not by eye. Finger tapes may help you get started on finger placement. Some of my students find that they only need the tape for the first finger. They can get the distances between the other fingers when they know where to start. If you feel you need tapes for all four fingers, that's perfectly OK, too. Also, looking at the tuner is a distraction. You need to think about all the things you should be doing with your hands, and you must develop the habit of listening to yourself. The latter is very important. Adult beginners tend to be impatient and not to appreciate their own successes. A good teacher will commend you on your accomplishments, no matter how small, in addition to to finding weaknesses that need to be corrected.

Remember to work hard and also to have fun. I wish you many rewarding experiences.

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Studying violin from an adult piano player's perspective

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