Numbers vs ability

October 22, 2025, 8:56 AM · In my opinion, in music, ability is almost always the most important thing. Sometimes to the exclusion of everythimg else.

October 22, 2025, 9:01 AM · Mark I completely agree. I think it is better to have 4 or 5 stronger players, than it is to have 12 who seriously struggle.

Edited: October 22, 2025, 10:51 AM · Accuracy is more important than numbers. Good intonation makes a section sound louder. One player making mistakes really sticks out. The power to intensity ratio is not linear, so that the subjective doubling effect of adding players to a section is something like this; 1 : 3 : 9. Adding or subtracting one violin or viola does very little to the total perceived volume. That is also why composers can get more volume out of the string section by adding divisi chord tones at the octaves.
Also, what I have confirmed by experiment, for double stops and chords in orchestra parts; divisi, each player on only one note, sounds louder and better than everyone in the section trying to play all of the notes.

October 22, 2025, 11:22 AM · Joel, I think I would agree with your point on double stops. I think it's something to discuss with my section leader when our next rehearsal is.

October 22, 2025, 2:41 PM · Jake, I’ve played with 30 so so players, and with three really good ones. I’ll stick with the three good ones any day.

Edited: October 22, 2025, 3:50 PM · Jake, et al,-- As a concertmaster for a low budget community orchestra, my policy for divisi is: The composers want more volume or density when they write double stops or chords. For More volume, better quality, better intonation, do divisi single notes instead.
1st violins: outside players play only the top note. Inside players the next note or any easy double stop. If there are 4 notes in the chord you can accidentally miss the bottom note. Someone else in the strings probably has it. Easy double stops are: with open strings, 6ths, 7ths. All of the others are either hard to tune or awkward.
2nd Violins; inside players play the bottom note and any easy double stop. Outside players do the top note and any easy double stop.
Violas: any C-string note may not be doubled by anyone else in the strings. Inside Violas play only the C-string note. Outside players do the top note and any easy double stop.
Cellos: The bottom note of a chord is probably the very important bass note of the chord. Inside players focus on that lowest note. The Cellos also frequently get the main melody on the A-string. Outside Cellos focus on that top note.
Basses: Do not play double stops. Remember that the low C-string is a modern invention and before about 1820 many basses were still using the 3-string bass or the double-bass Viol, both had A as the low string. It is legal to play an octave higher.
Exceptions; Sometimes the composer wants the noisy sound of the strings trying to play the arpeggio chords, especially "authentic" early classical era performance practice. There is an unfortunate, unsuccessful example of that in one of the Respighi Ancient Airs and Dances (string orchestra)
Sometimes composers will write 3 or more notes on separate staves. Divisi by person# instead of by stand # works a little better.

October 22, 2025, 11:17 PM · I find amateur orchestras are a bit like potlucks… we all bring what we can, and there’s a bit of faith required that it all will work out, and a bit of imagination (and forgiveness?) to fill the gap of what is vs what could be. Fewer cooks might make a better meal, but that’s not necessary the point of a potluck.

October 23, 2025, 12:28 AM · It's not an either/or situation, though, is it? Because you're not replacing 4 or 5 good players with 12 who aren't as good, you're just adding to the section. There's also a lot of space in between being consistently on top of everything and seriously struggling with the part. As long as the additional players aren't at the point of seriously struggling, it generally doesn't hurt to recruit more.

That said, a small section of excellent players can hold its own against larger sections. Within the past year and a half, I've played Bruckner 5 and Mahler 1 in a section of just 6 violists (we were missing multiple regular violists in both concerts), but the section was stacked with excellent players throughout, and the balance sounded fine in the archival recordings.

October 23, 2025, 2:59 AM · Audiences for amateur performances don't (or shouldn't) expect what they would hear in professional performances. Many of them are friends and family, there to give support and encouragement. I like Alice's point about 'filling the gaps' which we have to do when listening to amateurs, and which I hope people will do when listening to my orchestra and my choirs.

Edited: October 23, 2025, 11:57 AM · I'm late to the discussion because I agree with Andrew Hsieh, but didn't know what I wanted to say. And a violist (the OP) has used the word timidity of a viola section, and that is my experience in both my orchestras. Perhaps there aren't enough role models for violists to realise they can, and are permitted to, belt it out like Perlman? (there are other reasons - for some violists, two that I know, it's just their second instrument, etc)

October 23, 2025, 11:31 AM · Violas, eh? The slow movement of Bruckner 4 has a 2-minute lyrical passage accompanied by just pizzicato strings that comes round a second time in the reprise. I don't know how we sounded from the hall but I thought our 4-strong section, average age 70+, put up a damn fine show.

Heretically, I often think violinists make the best viola players because the ones that do it are less trepidatious when given important notes to play.

October 23, 2025, 1:10 PM · I find that weaker string players stay dicreet, while weaker choir members bawl their heads off ("oh, I come to let off steam"..)

October 23, 2025, 1:19 PM · Absolutely - I was as timid as Hell when I started. Not standing out is a good way to be a team member.