When to stop upgrading/trading?

December 23, 2023, 12:02 AM · I think you should try upgrading your bow before you consider trading in your violin.

Edited: December 23, 2023, 2:02 AM · Melanie - your post doesn't contain the word "afford" which has been the main factor determining my choice of violin. In 1971 I settled on one which was the best I could aspire to as an impecunious student. This lasted me until 1997 when I felt restricted by its capabilities and was in a position to invest in a violin which would hopefully accompany me to a higher level. By 2017 I had no further aspirations as a player and thought it would be fun to "play the field", which it is. Upgrading can be a time-consuming and expensive business which I wouldn't want to have gone through too often.

Edited: December 23, 2023, 7:47 AM · I suppose you stop hunting for a better violin (or bow, indeed) when (a) you simply get tired of it; or (b) you don't have time for it anymore; or (c) you don't have money for it anymore.

Edited: December 23, 2023, 6:03 AM · @Mary Ellen - Amen. You are likely to get more bang for your buck upgrading your bow than your violin. And, as others have pointed out, affordability is a consideration.
However, another question, really one for your teacher or someone who can judge your playing, is: at what point can you say that upgrading is not really going to help you sound better? If I am honest with myself, I can say that a Strad or a really good instrument would be wasted on me. I once had a professional violinist tell me that she thought that even at her level, a Strad would be wasted on her. So, that's another consideration.

December 23, 2023, 7:25 AM · For all the practical considerations, if the violin for you is not a professional tool, but a hobby, it is very much up to you and what you can afford. Buying or trying new instruments can be a part of the hobby, I don't think anyone should restrain themselves from it based on some “rule of reason“.

Some people pick one violin from the first shop they visit, play it for the next fifty years, and never give changing anything a thought. Some own a collection and choose one to play depending on the mood. Someone might spend a million on a violin and only play Twinkle Twinkle on it.

If you keep thinking about how you aren't satisfied with the sound of your violin, there's no harm in going around a few shops and trying some others. Or some bows, as Mary Ellen suggested. It can be an enjoyable process on its own, even if in the end you decide not to buy anything. Maybe you’ll find that nothing you can reasonably afford is better than what you have, and go back to playing yours with a new peace of mind. Maybe you’ll find one you fall in love with that is affordable. Maybe you’ll find that a different bow is what you are actually looking for.

Either way, I feel that closing that gestalt is better than pushing the thought away every time you open the case. And anything you decide is likely to be cheaper than owning a collection of vintage cars, so there’s that.

Myself, I’m currently travelling for work a lot between wildly different climates and have a violin that is fine in all ways: pleasant, plays nicely, doesn’t hold me back, and isn’t so valuable I’d be excessively worried about something happening to it. I’ve played better ones, and I might look for something else once I’ve settled and have more disposable income, but for now it’s not on my mind.

Edited: December 23, 2023, 8:00 AM · A good violin should objectively perform the basic functions of violin without any defects. That is the baseline. One can find inexpensive violins that meet these requirements and one can find very expensive violins that do not meet them.

Consider the vocal qualities of really great singers: they are all recognizably different and unique, but they are all great. It is the same with good violins. Individuals might prefer one or another because of personal preferences, but they are all good.

Once you begin comparing violins that meet the baseline requirements for a good violin, it then becomes a subjective comparison of differences between violins based on personal perceptions, preferences, and experiences. Many of the tone qualities of individual violins can change or be changed by bow used, string selection, set-up, humidity, room acoustics, etc.

(Do you keep your violin humidified?)

I own a collection of great violins that I have curated over a lifetime, and I enjoy playing all of them. (I still enjoy playing my first good violin that I purchased out of an attic almost 50 years ago.) It would be difficult for me to rank them in order of good, better, best because they are all great, but they are also all different. I enjoy them all because they are all different.

You could try different strings and set-ups on your current violin, and you could also trial different violins and bows to compare with your current instrument. Take your current violin to the shop to compare with other violins, or ideally, bring some trial violin home to play in the space where you are most familiar with the sound of your current violin.

December 23, 2023, 11:33 AM · One may think of a violin as fine painting on the wall. It may be great and you may love it. That's why you bought it. But after some time you may want a change to something different. I don't see anything wrong with swapping out a piece of artwork or owning multiple pieces. Same is true with instruments. I'm only a student-level player. But I love exploring all aspects of the string world and collecting instruments. I currently have 5 violins, 2 violas, and 2 cellos. If you love it and can afford it why not?!

Edited: December 24, 2023, 3:14 AM · You should stop “upgrading” once it becomes difficult financially or you no longer feel the need for something better. Otherwise, it is a completely personal decision for you to make, and although there are all kinds of reasons to make decisions, it’s up to you do what is best for you.

I would suggest that before looking for something new you might determine whether the problems you have with your current instrument are caused by issues with playing technique, the bow you’re using with it, the strings, or the setup. If you know that none of these things are holding your instrument back, it can add some peace of mind to the decision-making process.

Edited: December 24, 2023, 8:09 AM · I agree with Rich - either when you run out of money
OR - when you figure out how to get the results you want with the tools you already have
OR - when you can finally read the "road signs." (;-))

December 23, 2023, 4:42 PM · Don Giovanni was a romantic and aspiring monogamist— but he was slow to decide on his one and only. Many violinists are like that.

Edited: December 24, 2023, 12:03 AM · As a non-musician friend once told me, many many years ago when I was contemplating replacing my childhood violin with something nicer: "Money can be used to purchase goods and services."

If you can afford it and want it, there's no reason not to buy something you desire. I certainly would buy a Strad if I could afford it!

Certainly if you're dissatisfied with what you have, and it no longer suits your needs, trade laterally or trade up as suits your budget.

December 24, 2023, 7:26 AM · There are certainly reasons not to upgrade.
It not only takes money to purchase a new instrument, it also takes time. The first few upgrades are easy, in that there are many instruments that are better in all respects. However, once one already has an instrument of some quality, getting a better one becomes a bit more difficult. Which aspects are better, is it appealing simply because it is novel, etc?

Another reason not to upgrade is that you are used to playing on your instrument.

One does not want to fool themselves into thinking that a better instrument will solve problems that are caused by insuffient technique.

The last two comments apply more to instances in which the musician already has a quality violin.

December 24, 2023, 1:07 PM · As already pointed out, a violin that does everything, including winning 1st place at a symphony audition, is going to be expensive, about as much as a new car. I never earned enough from music jobs or the day job to justify spending that much. After a few decades I acquired 4 violins at what would be considered student to intermediate level quality. Each one does something good, but is inadequate for other things. One has good high notes, #2 has good low notes, #3 is loud but hard to play, #4 is fast and easy for fiddle tunes, sounds good under a mike or direct amplification, but is too soft acoustic.

December 24, 2023, 1:15 PM · I think you can upgrade as long as you can afford it and enjoy it. I’m a professional violist, but spend more time teaching than performing. I debated whether or not to upgrade my bow several years ago because I didn’t “need” to. I reasoned that there are people who collect fine instruments and bows who don’t even play them. I upgraded and have zero regrets. The bow has helped me improve my technique and I enjoy using it every time I practice and perform.

Edited: December 24, 2023, 2:01 PM · +1 to the bow suggestions. I like my violin, but I would part with it before I would part with my bow. I don't really get the idea of collecting different violins, unless you have your go-to and some kind of beater for higher-risk playing; I would rather just have a single nicer violin.

I think the urge to collect and always be on the lookout for better can become a distraction from practice and practical work, but at some point, when a violin really isn't keeping up with the repertoire, it may be time to upgrade (cashflow notwithstanding).

December 24, 2023, 4:07 PM · I fourth the bow. Probably a better investment as well?

December 24, 2023, 4:59 PM · There is nothing wrong with collecting violins: I live close enough to Chicago to visit from time to time and have admired and played many fine instruments and bows and I still oogle the violins on the Tarisio web site. However, as an amateur player I have really focused on my own tone and sound production and it has made a world of difference. I have a nice Mittenwald violin from the last half of the 19th century and 3 bows. A codabow synthetic, A 57 gram light bow from the first part of the 20th century and a Modern heavier bow from a modern maker. That setup can do anything I will ever need. My former teacher sometimes stays at my house when she is in town for a gig, I always have her play my violin. It always sounds so beautiful. While it might not be right for everybody, I have decided on spending money on the highest quality lessons and playing opportunities I can find works very well too.

December 27, 2023, 3:10 PM · Since returning to the violin in 2008 I have changed instrument 4 times. The first was from a (nice) German workshop to a low-to-mid-level French Mirecourt. That lasted until I started to play in higher positions and found it was too much for it. I then bought a nice Canadian instrument which I loved until I had a chance to play a solo with an orchestra. I took that opportunity to search for a bigger sound and found a modern Italian that was responsive and expressive. That violin remained my instrument until it was badly damaged - and I took the opportunity to look for a replacement and bought my current Bellini (#5).

What happened along the road is that while improving in playing (and ear) my taste in instruments evolved in parallel. I had the chance to play the French violin many years later at the dealership where I had 'traded up' - and found it dull and difficult compared with #4. Each change gave me an instrument with more possibilities and with more challenges - and served to stimulate my interest and stoke my enthusiasm.

If the sound out of your instrument is no longer giving you the excitement, pleasure and satisfaction that pulls you into the practice room then you've simply grown out of it - and I am going to guess that its not the bow, you would know that. Go find another, trade up, trade down but find the violin that sounds as if you are playing from your heart. You won't regreat it - I never did.

And yes, I may well have reached my apex-violin - but only time will tell.

December 27, 2023, 4:06 PM · @elise Stanley - I think this is exactly the situation I’m in. Part of the problem is that I don’t think I was ever 100% in love with the violin I have to begin with when I purchased it a couple of years ago. It sounded better and I liked it better than what I had before, but it wasn’t 100% love. It’s a lovely older French violin that does have good sound to it but the neck of the violin is a bit too thick and I have a little more trouble with higher positions. Other violins I’ve had there’s been a good connection with the instrument in many ways. I just don’t feel that connection with this violin and I think that’s where I’m struggling.

In addition to the French violin, I have a 1930 Roth that’s beautiful. It has great tone, good projection and is very responsive. It’s a bit louder instrument and is great for music like Beethoven, Brahms. It’s not an instrument that I like when I need a sweeter, lighter tone. I was looking to the French violin to fill that aspect of it. It’s better in that department than the Roth but still just not quite there.

Looks like I’m heading to my shop in the next couple of weeks!

Edited: December 28, 2023, 11:01 PM · .

December 29, 2023, 8:51 AM · Melanie, et al.,

I have a very specific criteria that has allowed me to stay with the same violin (different bows) for my entire career.

Occasionally I will ask professionals that I know to play my instrument with my bow(s). For the longest time the sound they were able to produce from my instrument was far superior to the sound I could produce. I did have third parties listening to both of play the same music to get rid of bias. Bow changes had the most significant effects.

I did have a fling with a "Better" violin early in my playing and it was a disaster. I was more frustrated.

About a year ago I asked a friend to evaluate my playing against that of a professional. Finally, after decades I could match tone and sound quality. If I were much younger it would be time to upgrade.

This method will not work for everyone. I started my search with the maxim "A poor workman blames his tools" (A poor musician blames his instrument).

Since I'm not a professional and I no longer preform (evening driving has become next to impossible) it really doesn't matter.

Perhaps you have mastered your instrument and are getting all that is possible from it. Before spending more on a "better" instrument check to see if becoming a better musician is required.

Edited: January 3, 2024, 4:02 AM · IMHO, the time to stop upgrading is when you find a violin that you can’t put down. It should inspire you and teach you, feel comfortable, have a range of colours of sound, be able to play cleanly up all strings in high positions, be able to play ppp to ff, and look beautiful!
Don’t forget bows but find a violin you like first then find a bow that will bring out its best. I found that I needed to change bow almost every time I upgraded my violin. Aim at least 25% of your budget on a bow to match, nearer 50% on less expensive instruments.
I started on a Skylark, worth about $100, and kept trading up over 30 years of playing until I purchased a 1610 Brothers Amati, worth a little more…

Cheers Carlo

Edited: January 3, 2024, 9:53 AM · It has been mentioned to death before, but bows are an obvious sort of upgrade to keep considering

I started messing about with 19c bows a few years ago, and I've found that getting their best has required rethinking my right hand technique (so THAT's what those old guys were trying to get me to do in the last century!). When I manage to make that all work, a good modern instrument can do battle with a good old one. A Needham, say, doesn't sound like a Gagliano or Serafin out of the case, but, when paired with a Pajeot or Dodd or Voirin or Henry, it can get some equally remarkable results.

The exercise of trying antique bows has also made me a smarter shopper of new bows, which is a much less expensive way to leap over limitations.

January 3, 2024, 11:05 AM · If you are a hobby player, why not buy two or several instruments with different sound?

I would stop upgrading or buying new (additional) instruments once I don't feel the need anymore. Once I am completely happy with the violin/s I own. That could be one, two or several ones, depending on the way I use them and my purse. If you have three violins but only ever use one, sell the others. If you have three violins and use them on and off or for different music, keep them. If you just like to try new violins, have the money and find one you like that is different enough to your others violins to be worth buying, do so!

If you have two, a standard and a backup violin, no matter if as a professional or hobby player, I would try to make sure that you like them both. That the backup is not a second-class violin to you that you actually resent playing.

January 3, 2024, 11:51 AM · Oh yes, collecting violins is fun although I don't think it does your technique much good. Over the last 6 years I've bought 15 or so and taken most of them back to the auction house where they came from (or a different one). My 5 "keepers" are by 18th and 19th century English makers - not pretty to look at but all good players and I love them for their history as much as anything.

January 5, 2024, 5:50 PM · @Frederuca - That’s kind of my aim honestly. I managed to get ahold of a 1930 Roth violin a couple of years back that I fell in love with. It’s definitely a keeper for life.

The other violin that I own (other than a electric) is one that I’ve always liked, but have never truly loved. I purchased it as a step up from what I had - it was definitely better but I’ve never loved playing it the way I loved playing the Roth. Both are loud, powerful instruments and I realized that I wanted a violin that had a sweeter, softer side to it that neither of these have (despite many different types of strings). As I’ve been practicing some higher positions on the G string, I have also noticed that I can shift much easier on the Roth and struggle quite a bit more on my other violin.

So, that’s what I’m doing. I’m keeping the Roth as my powerhouse violin and looking to trade the other one for something that’s got a different voice, one that will complement the Roth. I’m also paying more attention to shifting so that I ensure I purchase a violin that I don’t struggle with quite as much.