Is it wrong to tap your foot for rhythm?
He says at orchestra he "silently" taps his foot for rhythm. I really am having trouble with rhythm, but tapping my foot has actually helped. Someone on this site told me its a "bad habit" that you shouldn't try to start.
Should I tap my foot or not? Is it really a "bad" habbit? I thought it would more be like a new learned skill....
Replies (40)
It is better not to tap one's foot. Try to learn "inner rhythm". If the musical impulse is going to the foot, it is going to the wrong place.
Greetings,
yes, its a bad idea. Aside from moving one away from developing a good internal sense of rythm it actually stores up stress in the feet whcih can cause problems late ron in your career. Even among advanced palyers it is quite often possible to find people who have stored up this problem with all sorts of leg tensions as a result. I have sene this particluar tension released quite often during Alexander work.
Its also extremely irritating to other people,
Cheers,
Buri
eh theres so many things your "not supposed to do".
I say be your own judge. If you like tappin your foot wile you play then do it. if it hurts you then stop. Any other form of music its fine to tap your foot because its a natural response to a groove.
I saw mariam freid play the brahms violin concerto, and she tapped her foot alot........ although she discouraged it to someone who played in the violin masterclass the day before.
But following examples of other people in music often leads to a stale second rate version of it.
Do your thing, do what you wanna do
Tapping isn't so much wrong as it is not helpful. Usually when I watch people tap their foot i see their foot slightly behind the actual beat, and then they respond to their foot which makes their playing doubly behind the beat.
It's better just to feel the beat in your chest cavity. With my quartet I often have us sing our respective parts and tap on the sternum in order to begin feeling the beat together. That seems to help more than bouncing the scroll up and down or worse yet, tapping the foot.
Preston
Greetings,
tapping each sternum might be even more fun.
Just a thought,
Buri
Also, depending on the sound in the performance space, foot tapping may be picked up by the mics.
Like so many choices... this one depends upon the situation. (And... knowing what to do in different situations is an important part of learning violin... as well as all things in life.) When playing in an orchestra, string quartet... or as a violin soloist in most places it is considered distracting and out of place to tap one's feet.
However... when playing fiddle tunes... at an old time jam, bluegrass jam etc... or playing for a contra dance/barn dance.... TAP AWAY! And... if learn Natalie McMaster Cape Breton style you can dance WHILE you play! :)
Katie <---who feels very thankful to have a standard violin/viola background.. but now loves tapping her feet while playing fiddle! :)
I've been to many high school band and orchestra concerts (being an orchestra teacher myself). Every time I see feet tapping, 90% of the tappers aren't tapping to the conductor's beat. What's the point of tapping?
Also, when one person taps his/her foot, another person might see it and get confused. This used to happen to me a lot when I was in grade school, but then again you don't exactly see the same level of "professionalism" in a seventh grade band concert. ;)
It's just a bad habit all around. You could tell that kid at your school that it's setting a bad example for other players, and it makes him look bad as well.
Greetings,
also if you have doggie poo on the sole it is better to keep things under wraps,
Cheers,
Buri
Better on your foot than in your beverage from Carnegie Deli *heave*
Preston
Another word of warning. I knew somebody at school who was told not to tap her foot. So she tapped her big toe inside her shoe instead. She said that she ended up with tendonitis in her big toe!
Hey, what about sniffing? I hear a lot of string players sniffing, and it is picked up by the microphone in many, many recordings. I find it distracting, even though one of my teachers years ago recommended it to keep time.
If you're looking for a bodily sound that you can use to keep the beat, how about.....well, never mind.
You could always get a surgical implant of a microchip-powered metronome that only you could hear. You could adjust the speed by thinking (just as long as you don't get any bad thoughts).
Sandy
Just don't let the sniffing get out of hand! I knew a guy, probably the best violinist at our university, and whenever I went to see him play I would get so frustrated because he would never stop sniffing, and he sniffed really really loud! It was very distracting, and I found out afterwards that several other people in the audience found it irritating. I later described the experience to someone as being similar to meeting a beautiful woman with a giant wart on her nose. I found it very hard to enjoy this guy's playing. I mean, I know he wanted to cue the others in the quartet, but he probably ended up making half the audience suspect he was a coke addict. And you couldn't just approach him about it and explain how distracting it was, because he was very arrogant and angry, and he was closed off to all criticism. So frustrating! :(
I knew a violinist in one of my chamber groups who decided, on the day of our recital, to cue us by winking the measure before we come in.
the first two attempts to start were marred by explosive laughter.
The most obnoxious thing one can do in an orchestral setting is to tap their foot, because the vibrations transfer throughout the section, and sometimes beyond. it's just unnecessary.
Oh gosh, this is one of the most dreaded bad habits out there. It is absolutely THE most annoying thing to play in an orchestra with people that do this. Most of these people are very nice, but are unintentionally being very obnoxious with their tapping.
I don't like swaying it makes me feel sea sick !
I was always taught that if the foot is right likely you are wrong and if you are right the foot is likely wrong -- either way it plays to put your concentration on the real task at hand.
What is with all of this proscribing?!
1st of all, not all violinplaying is "classical."
Secondly, classiscal violin playing is not what you think it is anyway.
Tapping your foot is no more inherently *wrong* than a drummer using his foot to do the base drum.
Is it inappropriate to tap your foot for certain styles? Yes. Is it commonly used in certain styles? Yes.
It depends on the situation.
If your foot rythm is wrong, that is not an inherent problem with using your foot for rythm, it is an inherent prtoblem with your rythm, *period*.
I agree with you that foot tapping is not always bad. I mean, for several years I was playing in a horn section in a band with bass, drums, guitar, keyboard - the works. We not only tapped our feet, we were encouraged by our director to dance and sway and even jump around sometimes! It was a very different situation, though.
The person who asked the question is playing in an orchestra. I assume, a classical orchestra. He wanted to know if it was a bad habit, and what everyone has been saying pertains to his situation - an orchestra. He's obviously not playing fiddle, so why would we answer his question as if he was?
Brian Sura doesn't only play orchestra...from previous posts I know that he is at least trying to do other types of playing...
Then why jump on people about it? Seems like a waste of energy to insult people's knowledge of violin playing just because they gave differing opinions than yours.
Am I jumping on people?
Sheesh, sorry if I offended you.
In every nonclassical show I've performed in, EVERYBODY is tapping their feet in orchestral situations.
Besides, I see classical violinists using loud stomps to establish rhythm all the time. I have a video of Glenn Dicterow doing a huge audible stomp in the middle of the Waxman Carmen Fantasy with Zubin Mehta and the NY Philharmonic.
I don't think the issue is whether "tapping" (or any other way of physically keeping the beat) is inherently good or bad. It seems that there are 2 concerns:
1. Does it disrupt one's internal timing and rhythm?
2. Is it a distraction to the audience?
If neither one of those issues are affected, what difference does it make what one does?
Sandy
Hi,
Thanks for all your responses. To answer your question I do mostly classical, but also play bluegrass and fiddle.
Now, the kid at my school "silent" taps his foot. Tapping my foot really has perfected my rhythm. When I try to day dream it stops me.
I'm glad to have received a grey answer rather then any at all. I think I'll tap my foot for learing a peice but not tap once its been perfected.
Thanks again everybody!
Kevin,if everyone in the orchestra is tappiug their feet what pupose does the conducter serve?Members of an orchestra do not need to tap their feet as they have a conducters beat to follow.Sniffing is inadvisable to those suffering from a cold or have hayfever.
The conductor serves the purpose of keeping all of the tapping on the same beat, so that the audience will hear great ensemble playing. It is only when all of the tapping is in the correct rhythm that the audience hears it as one foot, rather than a hundred separate feet. This is what makes for a great performance.
If one has a cold or hayfever, the one must sneeze (rather than sniff) the beat. Of course, this requires the orchestra's librarian to make sure that each stand is equipped with a box of kleenex. But it does add a rather fluid quality to the orchestra's sound.
:)
My performing sphere is pretty narrow (for now, anyway!) as an orchestral musician and sometime chamber player, but foot tapping isn't acceptable if it's at all audible or visually distracting. But we're not allowed to put fingerings in the parts either, and I wouldn't mind doing that from time to time! Some things I don't do just because I don't want to get in anybody's way.
It could be the classical mentality of overanalyzation, but does anyone else find that foot tapping robs you of energy that could be put somewhere else? I'm really talking about classical, where often strong rhythm has to be implied rather than explicitly marked, as with drum beats. When I make myself stop tapping, it sort of closes a leaking valve and makes the playing itself stronger and tighter.
Nicely put Nathan.
As for the occasional stomp, I'm probably the only person that thinks this but I actually like it when I see a soloist do this. (Yes, I'm strange I guess.) It's rather bizarre, but to me it portrays a sense of uncontained passion in the performance. It can definately get out of hand though.
Sniffing is an interesting point too. I think breathing is always better for rhythm than foot tapping. For one thing, it helps your rhythm far more and it also helps with eliminating shakes if you are nervous in a performing situation since your body is getting more oxygen. I would experiement with breathing more than tapping your foot. When I started focusing on my breathing, my rhythm and musical timing improved dramatically. Not to mention my playing started to feel secure rather than panicky no matter the tempo. Breathing is good. If for nothing else, you won't turn blue on stage!
-Laura
Greetings,
stomping and foot tapping are not the same thing. A good stomp is extreely helpful in momentarily breaking up tension , releasing inhibition and creating musical energy. I think Pruimrose even recommended it to some of his studnets on ocassion. I have been advised to play with it by Alexander teachers at times.
As far as comments about 'proscribing' and the implication that we cannot tell people what is 'right or wrong' I would respectfully note the following;
1) Like it or not, this forum is basically used by classiclay trained players. I am not saying this is good or bad, not saying any style is better than another in any sense whatsoever. That would be wrong and ridiculuous. But, at the moment ost questions are focused in this genre, that is the default setting as it were, and to complain that classical players are belittling other styles and types of music because they respond for this context does not really make sense.
2) Like it or not there are parameters of right or wrong in violin playing that have to be paid attention to. Laissez faire in terms of orthodox classicla tehcnique soetimes makes a teacher and student feel good but is doing noone any good in the long run.
3) I did raise the point that foot tapping as done by claaically trained musicians-is- a physical issue that cause tension. I have done a lot of work on problems that originate in oot tension cause by tapping. Part of the reason is that when a gipsy or jazz player uses this action it is coordinated with the whole body cooperating with expressing the music. For classically trained players it is generally both a sign of and caus eof inner tension taht needs ot be dealt with.
Cheers,
Buri
This is kind of random but I though it was funny. This guy came to my school - Peter Sheppard Skaerved. He played a lot of weird modern compositions. He would stomp the ground, whistle, and make funny noises with his mouth, among other strange things. He scared the entire audience when he stomped. He said in between these spectacles that his goal was to get young players more interested in the music of living composers - but after seeing him play, I wanted to just play music by "musty" old dead composers. I'll leave the stomping and whistling to others.
Hi, Amanada: I agree. Stomping and whistling and mugging may be great show business, but it ain't music.
Cordially, Sandy
My old music teacher and I would play duets together--he would stomp his foot alot but that was more in irritation with me--a signal that I was off rhythme. Whenenver I hear foot stomping I think of my inablility to keep up with the tempo--this is not a good thing.
Hee hee, I thought of you Buri just a couple days ago when I was sitting in with some old friends of mine, reading quartet music. Unconsciously, I started tapping my foot, out of excitement I guess - but it was definitely a long series of taps, not a good ol' stomp.
Well, after only a few minutes of this, I felt extreme tension/pain shooting up my shin! Don't need to tell me twice, I'll be careful not to let that happen again! :)
I find that many people tap their foot for security in rhythm but they dont realise that when they make a rhythmic mistake or get to a difficult passage, their foot is not a metronome and so it also goes wrong. Therefore I would discourage it.
Simple (though probably obvious) point: sound travels much slower than light. Everyone in an orchestra sees the conductor cue a beat at (for our porposes) exactly the same time. Sounds propogates much more slowly, so if I tap my foot on one end of the violin section, the tuba player might hear it somewhat later than he sees the conductor's beat (even if I was right).
If you assume that a large orchestra is perhaps 50 feet apart (wild guess) at its furthest points, that suggests about a twentieth of a second for the sound of the tap to propogate end to end, or longer than a sixteenth note at quarter=120 (or something). This is (I presume) why orchestras synchronize by watching a baton (visual), rather than by listening to each other as smaller ensembles do.
Q: Doesn't worrying about this open up a whole can of worms?
A: Of course it does. Playing has the same problem with attack timing, etc.
That said, I was under the impression that a lot of people tapped a toe inside their shoe. I hope it doesn't usually cause tendonitis! I know I tend to make short nods of my head sometimes, which I don't recommend (it only sort of works for me as I don't support a lot of the instrument's weight with my head).
I personally wouldn't tap my foot... It's distracting and certainly if you can keep the rythem in your head there is no reason to TAP your foot. If there is a particularly hard part of a piece that I need to keep my eye on, I simply "tap" my big toe. Noone ever sees it and it's way less distracting than the person sitting next to you looking like he is at a hodown. If you really need help on rythem, I sugges a semester of percussion. :) Just kidding.
In an orchestra setting, I wouldn't say tapping is a good idea. In my high school orchestra, first chair violist would always be tapping his foot for beats, except that his tapping was always off from our conductor (he was going at his own tempo; but as an individual violist, he was the best at our school...). I think it confuses other people who are sitting in a place where they can see that wrongly tapped foot and it doesn't really do any good for anyone. I think it's kind of hard to keep up with the conductor if you're tapping because you and the conductor may not necessarily have the same idea on tempo and no one can strictly be so steady like a metronome.
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June 29, 2006 at 02:15 AM · I try my best not to make any unnecessary movements while I'm playing, including tapping my foot. I enjoy watching players who move as economically as possible; they tend to have less tension and more freedom in their playing. If you can tap the rhythm correctly, it seems to me that you have it in your head. I've also had conductors beg us not to tap, complaining that it's impossible for everybody to tap in exactly the same way at exactly the same time, which makes the orchestra look amateurish. Keep time by hearing the sound in your head, listening to other instruments (if you're in an ensemble), breathing, or, if you feel that movement is absolutely necessary, tapping your toe inside your shoe.
Others may feel differently, however.