The Schubert Fantasy in C
I have recently fallen in love with the Schubert Fantasy in C. I hadn't even heard of it until recently, despite almost 20 years as a violinist, which I suppose is embarrassing. I read that it is an uneasy combination of songlike lyricism and immense virtuosity, and I completely agree: a beautiful, turbulent uneasiness!
My questions are: is it really as phenomenally difficult as it sounds? It sounds rather "pianistic" in places, but I am (strangely) a fan of pianistic-sounding violin pieces, even if they are quite difficult to play.
Also, can anyone recommend a good recording? I have heard Kremer, and he does a good job as usual.
Replies (39)
Yeah I think Menuhin's recording is really good. I think he's playing with Gould?
I have 3 fine versions of it:
0istrakh-Frida Bauer
Menuhin-Louis Ketner
Sergiu Luca-Joseph Kalichstein
It is a wonderfully original and wonderfully difficult piece, isn't it? Schubert was such a pioneer. Heifetz has an extraordinary recording; superhuman control. Menuhin's with Kentner is more gritty and one may experience it as more heartfelt, perhaps. Busch (with Serkin the Elder) stays out of the way of the music, although in general I prefer a more individual stamp. Szigeti, too, has recorded this piece; it is one of the few recordings of his where I feel his neither his technique nor personality is suited to the music. (I feel that way about his Mozart sonatas too, though I thoroughly respect those who would disagree...)Stern's recording gives me the impression that he is simply not especially involved in the music. My favorite Schubert violin recordings are on a Vanguard CD with Peter Serkin (piano) accompanying Alexander Schneider (violin). Schneider was 2nd violinist of the Budapest String Quartet, and was a marvelous chamber music player. His playing is, to me, far more idiomatic than is Shaham's in this music (his playing is meltingly beautiful), although Shaham has superior technique. (The C Major Fantasy is not on the Schneider/Serkin recording.) By the way, the Menuhin/Gould recording is the Schoenberg Phantasy -- not quite the same piece as Schubert's! (Menuhin plays a Bach violin/cembalo sonata [#4] and Beethoven's Sonata #10 with Gould on that recording as well.)
It is a really awkwardly written and demanding piece, for both instruments, and maybe that's why it's not often played in recitals.
Adolf Busch and Rudolf Serkin is my favorite. I think for German romantic stuff it's hard to find someone better. Technically, Busch wasn't the strongest player but his amazing musicianship more than makes up for it.
The two sections in the final Allegro Vivace with the broken chords have spots that I think are borderline unplayable--unless you have a very large hand. Many fine players do a simplified version which drops the bottom note and makes it a good bit easier (I think the top note is then played twice to make the rhythm work out). The piano has those notes already in octaves so there's nothing missing in the music.
Alan: I supouse you know that Schneider had his own quartet with Isodore Cohen second v, Karen Tuttle on viola and Herman Busch on cello.In the 50s.they recorded complete Haydn SQ, and this long OOP version is considered one of the best ever made. I have 4 of the SQ, and the play is wonderful.
Hi,
Yes, it is montrously difficult. The only person to attempt all original notes is Gidon Kremer, who has an amazing recording of the piece. He is the only one.
Other good recordings (with alterations) is Goldberg's and Gérard Poulet's. Both terrific!
Cheers!
Thanks for the recommendations. I just found a low-priced record on EMI of Schubert's complete violin and piano music, including the Fantasy, by Ulf Hoelscher and Karl Engel.
Having listened to it numerous times, I highly recommend it. Hoelscher may or may not have the virtuosity of Kremer, but his interpretation is magnificent. Certain sections, like the closing arpeggio, that have a tendency to sound slightly trite or insubstantial in other hands, sound glorious and romantic in Holescher's. The piano part is clear if a little mechanical at times. I think Hoelscher must do a great Beethoven if he can play Schubert so convincingly; I am going to buy his Triplekonzert with my fave pianist Christian Zacharias as soon as I get the money.
Speaking of which, does anybody here like Hoelscher and could they recommend any of his records?
I would avoid Ulf Hoelscher's recordings, he's a robot.
Vengerov think that it´s the hardest piece he ever played including the Ernst Last Rose variations and the Echo Sonata.
What do you think about Vengerov´s recording of the Fantasy?
I have a recording of Hoelscher playing R. Strauss's Vln Cto with Rudolf Kempe. It's my favorite among the few recordings of this piece. I also have his Brahms and Bruch, which are not so distinctive. The Strauss deserves a listen.
Huberman seemed to like that piece, he recorded it twice (acoustical and electrical, the latter with Jakob Gimpel), and there's also a live recording from a NY concert issued by Arbiter. Wonderful performances, especially the one with Gimpel, by one of the greatest violinists of all time!
Wow, great thread.
I'm going to look for that Menuhin/Gould cd. I love Gould-- but how hard it must have been to collaborate with him!
Just for the record, I love Hoelscher's recordings!
Favorite performance of the Schubert Fantasie: Joseph Swenson, violin and Jeffrey Kahane, piano.
Hi,
Interesting recordings pointed out... by the way Jude, the Menhuin recording with Gould as pointed above is of the Schönberg Phantasy, not the Schubert...
Cheers!
Hi David,
There is only one recording of Huberman doing the Schubert Fantasy that I am aware of (a broadcast with Roubakine).
Patrick.
I think he did it once in the acoustic era, it was issued years ago by "rococo", and I know for sure he did it later with Jakob Gimpel, electrical recording, early 30ies, I have it on tape.
PS: (am I David?)
If you can get the Sergiu Luca and Joseph Kalichstein I highly recommend it. I also heard Menuhin play it and I prefer the Luca recording by far.
How can I find the Heifetz recording of this piece?
Haunt some old record shops for the Lp recording...
The Heifetz recording is issued in CD format by RCA Victor Gold Seal, 7873-2-RG. It was released in 1989 and in addition to the Schubert Fantasie (w/Brooks Smith on piano) it includes Brahms' Piano Quartet, Op. 60 and the Beethoven String Trio Op. 9, No. 2 with Primrose (viola) and Piatigorsky (cello). The Schubert was recorded originally in 1960.
Hi Daniel (sorry, not David!),
Your electrical recording of Huberman doing the Fantasy is bound to be the same as the broadcast ... Rococo is notorious for incorrect labelling (often intentionally). He definitely didn't record it acoustically for Brunswick.
I think I made a confusion between the Fantasy and the Kreutzer sonata, as far as the acoustic recording is concerned...but there is definitely an electrical recording with Gimpel, nothing to do with the New York concert (the sound is a lot better)
I just heard a version of this piece by Jaime Laredo. Would not recommend it. A timid performance with questionable intonation and poor string-crossings, and using the simplifications in the broken chords. I thought he had a big reputation? hmmm anyway I would pick Hoelscher or Kremer any day over this performance. Good pianist, however, and that counts for something.
Carlos:
Oistrakh never recorded Schubert's Fantasy in C major D.934. You are obviously mixed up with the violin sonata Op.162 which Oistrakh recorded with F.Bauer, live in 1966. He also recorded live with Richter. I have both recordings.
Amadeu,
I have Oistrakh playing Op. 162 with Lev Oborin. Don't you have this recording?
Carl.
Carl:
I didn't know there was a recording of this piece with Oborin. I have it only with Bauer,Richter and Kreisler/Rachmaninoff.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to look for it at my favorites rare LPs stores in NY.
There is a live 1961 recording of the Fantasy with Oistrakh and Yampolsky, on Brillant Classics
There's a wonderful recording of all the Schubert music for violin and piano by Arnold Steinhardt and Seymour Lipkin.
It is absolutely one of the most challenging in the violin/piano repertoire. Good luck!
If i may speak "ad hominem", a former teacher, Dr. Howard Leyton-Brown, former pupil of Carl Flesch and Max Rostal, as well as former leader of the London Phil. [LPO] once stated in a lesson, when i expressed curiousity about the Schubert Fantasie, that he had assured by famous accompanist Gerald Moore that the Schubert was the single most difficult piece in the violin-piano duo repertoire. A rather remarkable claim, but Moore certainly had enough experience to rationally justify his assertion...
The Heifetz recording with Brooks Smith of this is superb.
The Menuhin recording is not with Glenn Gould, but it is wonderful, and far superior to Heifetz' assault on the piece. I certainly agree that it's one of the most challenging works in the repertoire. I have never heard a successful live performance of it. Francescatti did a really fine job for quite a while, but then, when the really hard part starts, he started rushing and disaster ensued. Joseph Fuchs was quite bland, but he missed so many notes that it would have been unsuccessful, even if there had been some spirit.
Two recordings that I have really enjoyed have been Viktoria Mullova with Katia Labeque, and Pamela Frank with her father, Claude Frank. The Mullova is great because it's live, and it really sparkles. Claude Frank's sensitivity in the other recording is beautiful.
I'm a complete Schubert fanatic and have tried to play the Fantasy decently many times, with mixed results... Outside of very awkward technical difficulties, it's very difficult to make it sound good...and then keep it! For pianists also a very difficult task, according to all complaints I've heard...
I only wonder no one, even in such a long-living thread, has mentioned the recording by Zino Francescatti and Eugenio Bagnoli, at least for me (maybe together with Steinhardt's version) it's the most beautiful Schubert playing on the violin imaginable.
Yes, there is a really wonderful recording of it. David Oistrakh with Frieda Bauer accompanying. Great sound, wonderful pacing and style, and no sign of effort in the difficult technical passages, which are numerous. It's lovely Schubert if you have the technique to play it! I have it on LP and still love it. I did not see it on Amazon, but look around, It may well have appeared on CD at one time or another.
Avoid the Heifetz version. I love him in almost everything but his recording of the Fantasy is rather dreadful, because it is much too closely miked in a dry acoustic. As a result he sounds dreadfully scratchy and dry. In a hall with good acoustics and the mikes further away, it would have been better, but even so, Heifetz was not, I think, spiritually in tune with this piece.
Frederick,
Where can one get the recording of Oistrakh/Bauer? Their collaborations have been musically magical, and I would love to hear this one as well.
Are you sure the Schubert with Bauer is the Fantasy? There's only one recording currently available with Oistrakh, and it is with Yampolsky (see my previous postings)..
The legendary version of Johanna Martzy has just been reissued by Testament (2cds, with the complete Schubert violin and piano compositions)
Daniel,
I'm pretty sure it exists - I just googled it and found some ebay auctions (closed already, sorry) for that LP, and the auction listing actually had a picture of the LP cover to confirm it.
George
This discussion has been archived and is no longer accepting responses.
Violinist.com is made possible by...
Dimitri Musafia, Master Maker of Violin and Viola Cases
Elmar Oliveira International Violin Competition
Johnson String Instrument/Carriage House Violins
Subscribe
Laurie's Books
Discover the best of Violinist.com in these collections of editor Laurie Niles' exclusive interviews.
Violinist.com Interviews Volume 1, with introduction by Hilary Hahn
Violinist.com Interviews Volume 2, with introduction by Rachel Barton Pine
February 10, 2005 at 08:35 PM · Schubert wrote awesome sonatas
I have the stern recording -its ok
I seem to prefer the rondo brilliant a little more