Csardas
Bonjour violinists,
I am 13 years of age and have been advancing very quicly as a student on the violin. These work of Monti have been one of my favorites. I casually checked out these peice from the local library and after i looked closely at it later it did not appear very difficult. Should i be learning the peice, has anyone played it before, and does anybody have advice on the molto vivo and Allegro Vivace sautillé?
-Andrew
Replies (13)
A lot of young students (at least in MN) learn to play Csardas at some point. You should definitely learn it (it doesn't take very long).
For the false harmonics:
Right Hand: Tilt the bow and play near the bridge during this passage to make the harmonic sound.
Left hand:
Make sure the "harmonic" finger in the left hand lightly touches the string, while the "base" finger (usually the index finger) applies pressure and is in the right position.
As for the sautille you just have to practice it slowly and gradually bring it up to speed.
Know the notes with your left hand first, then coordinate them with your bow strokes. It's good training for fast passages you'll encounter later on.
Greetings,
practice the 16h notes lurre dlegato to master the left hand.
For coordiantion practice hooked bowwoing. IE play the firts note and hte second in one bow, then the second and third in one bow, then the third and forth etc. Play fatser and faster until you get off te end of the scale of the mm. The purpose of the exercise is to make you change finger before you change bow.
Also never practice in large chunks. Take a small unit say four notes andplay it many times. Then the next then the next.
Then play two small units together again and again. Then the next. the purpose is to make progressivey larger chunks while keepinf them under the commanbd of a single mentla instruction,
Cheers,
Buri
I first performed this piece having no clue about sautille. My ignorance allowed me to proudly ham it up on the schmultzy parts and fly along on those sixteenth notes, and the audience liked it. Only later did I iscover I'd been doing it wrong. Don't get discouraged if the sautille doesn't work for you at first. It takes a lot of little components all working just right to make it happen. Do you have excercises to develop this skill? I agree with Buri's advice. Make sure to practice the sautille on open strings each day a little until it becomes comfortable. And practice finger coordination separately. Use a metronome.
And have fun!
Andrew, about sautille...
A. Coordination:
1.1)play all 16th note sections by doubles (I mean, repeat each note two times with separate short bow in the middle of a bow, where bow balances well); use this rhythm pattern: one eighth duration-pause and two 16th (the first note) you play with short bow down-up;
2) stop the bow, during the next 8th pause place the next finger;
3)play the 2nd note two times down-up;
4)stop, place next finger,... etc.
2. Next point: play each note four times (16th durations), with no pauses and making accent on each 1st note in a group of four 16th (repeated) notes. Make a slight accent with a bow and placed finger. (Don't press a finger too much but place it with own weigh only; also active lifting finger is very important. When you lift finger, imagine an accent too).
3. Do the same, but repeat each note three times, the way to make correct bow direction for each note with an original. (Don't forget about making accents!).
I wrote a lot, but this practicing takes not more then 10-15 minutes.
B. Bowing:
To make bow jump, (it's better to practice on open strings first) place your bow in the middle on a string (in the balanced point. Each bow has own place, find it on your bow, or ask your teacher for help). Pronate slightly your wrist to make the whole width of the bow's hair lay on a string. It is better to keep all fingers, including pinky, on a bow's stick.
Practice a very short (less then 1 inch)quick detache. Feel how right corner of your thumb touches a bow's stick: not pressed, but firmly. When you play on open strings, imagine different groups (four 16th, three 16th, two 16th).
Good luck!
This is all such good advice; I wish this site had been available when I was performing it minus sautille like Emily. Violinmasterclass.com has an excellent page on sautille exercises, which reflect the advice posted above (there's also a performance stream of an 11-year-old playing the Czardas). I think one of the most important ingredients in sautille is flexibility in the fingers. If you have problems in this department, check out the colle section of the masterclass site.
...except that I have also read that the pinkie lifts off for sautille. Perhaps, this is not proper British etiquette. ;)
Regardless of whether on or off, I believe the pinkie is much more passive for this bowing than with spicatto. I studied this idea when reading Carl Flesch. I'd love to hear more thoughts on the topic of the role of the pinkie. Anyone?
Greetings,
Emily, either way is fine. My argument for leavingthe pinkie on is simply saving energy. The pinkie may be needed to change the position of the bow on the strings orcontrol the bow before, during or after the sautille so why not just have it in place. But if it is detrimentlaly effecting the sautille then certinaly it can come off. This is one of those questions that long contemplation of can cause more trouble than the point is worth. Some other aspects:
1) Make sure you distinguish between the sautille as an uncontrolled stroke and spiccato which is controlled.
2) In sautille the bow hair does not lose contact with the stings. The stick jumps and creates the illusion that it is off the string.
3) Always make sure the left hand is completely comfortable before trying the bowing up to speed. Speped is actually a result of left hand -ease- but if you are forcing things then you are building tension into your technique. Be patinet.
The left hand leads. If you let the bow lead it can easily get faster and faster and you will end up with nothing.
When doing slow practice don`t use the same finger pressure you would use for -playing- slowly. If you are practicing a fast passge slowly you still have to enulate what the left hand does at speed which is to barely touch the string.
In order to practice everness of weight injeciton through the left hand fingers play a four note group forte , in slow double notes, two to a bow. Think that you are sitting mentally on the finger playing each note. Keep as many fingers down as you can. Paly forteonce or twice only with the sitting of the mind and then play the group many times over in one bow stroke slurred with the fingers really light. Try to make an accent on each group of four. You can also use this as a tehcnical exercise before scale practice for example.
Cheers,
Buri
Thanks for the help I have one more question to ask. What does Csardas mean? I heard somebody say "Easy gypsy Airs." Its not "That easy" if Vengerov plays it goes into 7th pos. I like this peice i can utilize perfect intonation and give a reall expressive aspect to the Largo.
Easily put is Csardas an music form just like rondo or a symphony.
It contains 2 parts, a slow introduction and a faster second part.
Another good piece that is good for practicing sautille in Novacek's "Perpetuum mobile".
I think a Czardas was originally a dance, right? (Like a lot of other classical music forms...gigue, waltz, minuet, and a lot of others I'm not currently thinking of.) There are other czardases (sic?) besides Monti's, though it seems to be one of the most famous. I have some handwritten sheet music from my grandfather-in-law, who was an avid fiddler and gypsy music fan, and he has several other czardases besides Monti's. (No idea where they originally came from.) They all seem to have a fairly similar character (esp to Monti's 16th note sections), though Monti's seems a bit more "dressed up" in classical stunts to me (not necessarily harder, though).
Szardas is a hungarian folk dance. It is dance genre (not a form). Usually it is written in 2/4 or 4/4. It consists of (as it was already written by Mattias) two contrasted parts: slow-'men's dance' (hungarian: 'lassu') and fast-'pair dance', (hungarian: 'friss'). You can see lots of sharp sincopations in Szardas's rhythm. I think, we will not make mistake if we name some of Brahms's Hungarian Dances 'Szardas'. The very good example of Szardas (I think everybody know it) is 'Grand Pas Hongrois' from the ballet "Raymonda" by Glazunov. Also you can find 'Szardas' among works by Tchaik, List (Hungarian Rhapsodies) and otheres.
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November 29, 2004 at 04:24 AM · Bonjour back!
I'm 43, advancing rather slowly on the violin (and even slower on the viola) and I have never heard of those particular pieces...LOL...well, I'm off to look them up because now you have me curious...
:D