Opinions on Vanessa Mae's new album,
Hi all.
I've been asked by a local music magazine to review Vanessa Mae's latest album, "Choreography."
Have any of you listened to this? What's your own opinion of Vanessa Mae's playing (not just on this album, but also elsewhere)?
IMHO, Vanessa Mae is a very skilled player (definitely leagues ahead of me! :-P) and her "fusion music" has definitely helped to boost interest in classical music.
However, I also think that she hasn't done enough to expand the technical capabilities of the violin --especially of the electric violin that she uses.
There's still so much unexplored territory in the field of electric violin technique. I wish VM and other contemporary "pop" violinists would expound on it some more.
Anyway, that's just my two cents. I'd like to know other violinists' opinions on VM so that I can write a fairer and more well-rounded commentary on her work than I would be capable of otherwise.
All comments are most welcome :-) Thanks!
Replies (55)
Mattias,
I'm not familiar with VM's earlier performances as a child prodigy, but I do agree with most (if not all) your observations about her present playing style.
I don't have any problems with her string crossings, but I definitely agree that her playing could use more color and dynamics.
However, in fairness, it could be that she intentionally restricts her playing style for artistic reasons so that her playing blends with the electronica and other background music.
VM manages to pull off a decent style of "fusion-pop" music, but (as I said before) I think there is so much territory she has yet to explore.
Please keep the comments coming! :-)
I definitly agreeas that she is restricting her playing to blend with the other musicians.
The question is whether she does intentionally or unintentionally.
Since she plays classical pieces (Vivaldi, Chen Gang etc) whit the same restricted playing I would argue that she soes it unintentionally.
But that does NOT mean that you many not appreciate her, I appreciate Bob Dylan as a singer. A man that without doubt have on of the worst singing techniques of all :)
Mattias's comments are very interesting. That is the most detailed discussion of VM's playing I have seen here, and I would definately agree with most of it. I would agree that her earlier classical playing showed more classical-style sophistication than her new stuff. (I have a 3-cd set from a while ago of all classical works, including a quite reasonable rendition of the Tchaik, one of my favorites.)
I also agree about the limited dynamic and color range, though I wonder how much of that is an artefact of either the fact that she's playing electrified, or the genre she's playing in. I have always wanted to see some pop which uses violin use a broader range of the instrument's capabilities. Dave Matthews Band, for instance, has an excellent (jazz-esque) violinist, and I love when he cuts loose, but I think DMB's style could stand plenty more violinistic emphasis on some numbers, at least live. I'd be happy to see more bands use more range of the instrument well, rather than just the typical schmaltzy intros we occasionally hear.
I didn't know she had a new album out, and will definately give it a listen. I was a big fan of her greatest hits album, and her 3-cd classical set, though I have been less impressed with most of the other pop works on the albums that the greatest hits were drawn from (duh...they were the best, I guess). Curious to hear what anybody else who has heard the new album thinks. :-)
I haven't heard the CD yet, but please tell me she's NOT singing on it.
I can appreciate her violin playing for the fusion genre. Dare I say her first fusion album was what inspired me to pick up the violin. I really like her non-classical violin playing.
But I'm not a fan of her singing/vocals... they just don't do anything for me. In fact I didn't buy any of her CD's after "Storm" because of fear that she may sing on some of them. (BTW she's a better singer than me.. but that's not saying much).
Phil,
Haha, that's the first time I've heard anyone comment on VM's vocals! I don't think she has a great singing voice (and I'm being generous with that opinion!) but I think her voice, mediocre though it may be, blends okay with all the electronica background on her tracks.
Francis,
I agree with your comments on VM as well as DMB. I really love Dave Matthews Band, but one wonders what more could be done with the violin in contemporary music. As I said in my earlier post, I think there's so much room for growth especially in the realm of electric violin technique.
Speaking of electric violin technique, why not start a thread or post something on that topic? Hmm, maybe I will once I'm finished with my review of VM's "Choreography" :-)
"Choreography" is a brave attempt on VM's part to explore the music of different cultures (what some might call "world music"). The jury's still out, though, on how successful she was at it.
Ok I just heard it.
To tell you the truth it's actually growing on me.
The violin playing isn't anything to rival that of master violinists (as expected), but it's decent enough for this genre.
It's certainly better than anything she's produced since the "Violin player"; and I certainly welcome the "world music" feel of it in preference to the pop infestation of her last album.
It's got a very oriental-arabic feel to it.
If people don't like the classical fusion genre they're unlikely to like this album. I however think it's pretty good for the classical fusion genre... I am going to listen to it more than once.. so it is money well spent.
...and thank God she's not singing on it! Woo Hoo!!
Phil,
Hahaha, you really seem to have such a big aversion to VM's voice! :-P
I think VM's entrance into "world music" may better suit her classical playing style more than the pop/electronica of her earlier work.
What do you guys think? :-)
Jean Luc Ponty, L. Shankar, Regina Carter; these players are light years beyond V.M.
I think her interpretations of putting a 'pop' style to classical music interesting but I think it hides musical talent and blemishes. And she alwyas seems to dance while playing her violin live on stage-how is that possible? (I'll most probably drop mine!)
One-Sim :P
Heh, the same as me! I tried to move on, just walk with my violin on my arm, and I couldn't play well! One time I almost droped it, just like you - other time I couldn't make decent sound, because my bow jumped and squeezed. But... I was just _walking_, and she's jumping, making piruets and anything else! I'm not a big fan of everything pop what she makes, but I love her technique and skills. And I definetely love her performance of Mose's Variations On The G string Tuned Up To B-flat by Paganini.
Best regards,
M.
Like Phil, I drew inspiration from VM. The first time I ever heard anybody play Bach's Preludio it was her. From that point I began to listen to other Bach violin pieces by other artists. Eventually I got hooked and was buying DVDs of Maxim Vengerov and Ann-Sophie Mutter and CDs of Ysaye's sonatas and Violin Adagios.
The difference between Mae and Jean-Luc Ponty (my personal favorite) is that Mae includes classical violin repertoire in her recordings and Ponty doesn't. I dare say if Ponty were to put out a classical album the critics would likely pick him to pieces. VM has found her niche and is apparently comfortable with it. More power to her.
For a really impressive display of dancing and playing, go to this site:
http://www.aprilverch.com/
Rod,
Not to contradict you, but I'm biased in favor of Jean-Luc Ponty over Vanessa Mae.
While it's true that Ponty didn't come out with a classical album, he did push the envelope of electric violin technique to new levels.
In contrast, VM seems too conservative in her playing even in her electronica and pop tracks. I too often get the feeling that she insists on using classical playing techniques in all her pieces, no matter how outlandish the results may be.
Of course, this is good in the sense that it has roused the curiosity of many a passive listener to the delights of classical music.
Is VM a great violinist? Without a doubt, she's extremely proficient and definitely a cut above a lot of other violinists out there.
However, it's a pity that she hasn't used her talents to explore new avenues of electric violin playing techniques.
Perhaps she will in the future, once her skills and confidence have grown sufficiently.
In the meantime, I agree that she's one helluva stage performer. She's extremely agile and flexible (not to mention nubile! :-P)
Anyway, about "Choreography":
This album is substantially different form VM's previous work in that all the tracks are more earthy, with strains of traditional music from different parts of the world: East European (Khatchaturian's "Sabre Dance"), African ("Tribal Gathering"), Indian ("Raga's Dance"), South American ("Bolero for Violin and Orchestra" and "The Havana Slide"), etc.
She gets a lot of help from the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, but listening to VM and the RPO side-by-side makes VM's deficiency in dynamic expression (see earlier posts above) more apparent.
More insights to follow as I come up with them :-)
Please feel free to disagree :-D
Cheers,
TJ
TJ - I disagree. ;-) Just kidding. I haven't been able to find the Choreography album on Amazon so I haven't heard any of it yet. Must be on the UK site.
Anyway, I don't really disagree with you on Ponty. As I said, he's my personal favorite. The point I was making is that because he hasn't recorded any classical pieces he didn't do anything to awaken an interest in classical violin repertoire in me like Vanessa Mae did. Your point is well taken however, that Vanessa Mae did nothing to push the envelope of jazz/rock fusion violin as Ponty did. I guess maybe she pushed the envelope for techno/classical fusion instead. At any rate, I still maintain that any venture into the world of classical repertoire on Ponty's part would probably be met with the same kind of snarling contempt we've seen expressed for VM, despite the fact that he played for the Paris Symphony 40 years ago. I'm not saying that VM should be considered in the same category as Heifetz or Perlman. I'm just saying that she's better than some are giving her credit for, and her success is hardly a sign of the end of civilization as we know it.
Pjuh!
Then I can stop hamstering canned prunes now?
Sour grapes.
Mattias, I don't describe VM as vomit or anything quite like that. I think she's a very attractive woman who is also intent on making as much money at any cost as she can. Nothing wrong with a reasonable dose of greed; it does inspire some to outdo themselves.
I just critique her playing from the classical perspective. I don't venture into criticizing her as a pop violinist, as I don't know enough about pop music to offer an educated opinion. But as a classical violinist, she is markedly below par. I only mind when someone takes her playing as a model of what "exciting" and "non-stuffy" CLASSICAL playing should be. She may be un-stuffy, and she may be exciting (though how one can be perpetually excited by the same mechanical approach to sex is beyond me), but she is not classical. To call her that is just a mistake, not somehow morally repugnant.
The same mechanical approach to sex? This ought to be good...
Sorry Emil :)
Laurie, that's just the problem! It isn't all that good when all it is is the same ritualistic actions performed in the same ritualistic order. Or when it's all about the same imagery/innuendo in the pop culture world. Just ONCE I'd like to have some pop culture icon refer to sex as something other than "hot", "steamy" or "sizzling". For God's sake, it's the language with the largest vocabulary on earth and all the innuendo peddlers can offer are the same three tired adjectives and the same photos of windblown hair and fiddle-as-witch's-broomstick?
Robert and I came up with 37 different adjectives, but the only one we could think of that we felt was appropriate for a family site was "jiggy."
But that connotes a giggle factor or a valve-and-piston approach. If classical music's principal ethos were to be translated into sex, wouldn't it be more of the candlelight-and-wine variety, perhaps including some curveballs, (don't GO there!), rather than the MTV approach to anything multifaceted, multilayered, and potentially life-altering? Which is, in case someone's not aware of my position on the matter summarized as follows: "Simplify and reduce to the most absurd level, one which can be intuited and/or consciously grasped even by someone with the IQ and emotional depth of a wilted dandelion."
Emil,
Haha. Wilted dandelions! ROFL
i think VM is one from the other of greatest violinist...she can play caprices,devil's sonata by giuseppe tartini...somehow so easily..
i think she plays exoticly,which in my mind that means she always play in mf-f.but,i think she play the p on the handel's minuet..(oh i adore the way she produced it!so....everything)i have all her album(almost)from violin player till coreography...
i adore her,as i adore other greatest violinist...coz she's the first violinist that made me took the violin class.
but,i agree that she need to explore more...
thanks
The new album hasn't been released yet in the US so I cannot comment on it. V-M herself is a thoroughly MODERN violinist who's rich and famous and doesn't need to change or prove a thing. Her record sales say it all. All this obsessing about the girl is nothing more than sour grapes. She's more famous than you and whether you think she deserves it is irrelevant. Get over it and get a life already.
Sam Li,
Hi! Please don't think that any of the posts above are "obsessing" or a case of "sour grapes."
And on the contrary, it is not "irrelevant" to discuss whether or not Vanessa Mae deserves her fame.
Just because VM (or anyone else for that matter) is famous does not excuse her from criticism, and this includes discussions of whether or not she deserves her fame as well as comments on her skills as a violinist.
One does not cease to be critical just because the object of his/her criticism is famous or adored by the majority of people.
We are critical of historically recognized artists, philosophers, scientists, authors, etc. in life and even in death, so why not be critical of a musician such as Vanessa Mae?
Sam, I agree with you that VM is already so rich and established that she most likely will not want to do a thing about improving her violin technique. Still, however, the fact remains that there is much room for improvement.
This note of criticism is of use not just to her (who I sincerely doubt will ever read about it at all anyway) but for all aspiring violinists, so that they can learn from VM's technique more objectively.
Such criticism does not weaken my appreciation of VM's music, but in fact deepens my respect for her as a human being.
(In case anyone is wondering, despite my criticism of VM, I gave "Choreography" 4 out of 5 stars in my review because of its overall artistry)
In fairness to everyone who has posted heretofore, none of the posts seems in any way angry, annoyed,insensitive, etc. such as to merit being called "obsessive" or "sour graping."
I actually found most if not all of your posts extremely entertaining and informative!
Besides, I do distinctly remember having asked all the members of the Violinist.com community to post their comments about Vanessa Mae.
Sam, I really appreciate your effort to move the discussion on to other potentially more fruitful topics. However, that is not to say that the present discussion is fruitless in itself.
regards,
Timothy
I just looked at the April Verch link. And then they say I move a lot... That is awesome: tapdancing while you are playing. Maybe a new route for Vanessa?
I didn't say that she doesn't desere her fame, I think that she deserve it.
But I don't think that she is among the top classical violinists around.
>>Her record sales say it all
Sam, I don't think this is about sour grapes at all. We're just making comments about VM's album based on technique and musicality.
Selling lots of records, having lots of money, and loads of fame does not necessarily imply good technique or musicality. E.g. Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake, Puff Daddy, Avril Lavigne. Let's be real here - you don't need musical talent to sell records. Record sales mean nothing! except that you are MARKETABLE.
Now I consider VM to be a good, talented and very entertaining violinist, but she's not up there with the best of them. She may not care less about that... and that's her business. But since this is a discussion board about violin playing it is only natural that we are going to review VM's playing.
And because I am assuming the majority of contributors to this board are somewhat musically competant - I would expect that most contributors are not going to care less about an artists record sales.
Myself and many other people on this board are fans of Nigel Kennedy. He sells lots of records but you don't see any "sour grapes" from us. I consider him to be a really awesome violinist.
Let my say, at first when I heard vanessa mae quite some time ago on her storm album, I thought it was the coolest thing in the world, and I listened to it over and over and over, she introduced me to a side of violin that is not classical, so I can't just totally diss her, but after a few years, and a lot of exploring, I realized I like her so much because I was listening with a "classical ear", with that I mean her approach sound, she was playing lots of cool arpeggios and stuff, and it was over a cool beat, so I dug it, but after hearing simply better musicians(violinists) playing and exploring the violin outside of classical, my appreciation for her has dropped quite, probably also do to the fact that I've just gotten older and vivaldi over a techno beat just doesn't do it for me. So, anyways to the album, I heard some samples of vanessa mae's new album(well actually all the songs over a stream link), I think some of its ok, and some of it is actually disgusting and a slap of the face to be called "world music". the way she plays, phrases could never be called "world music"..its called a pretty good violinist applying classical technique and ideals to music from around the world. For example, the "havana slide", whom someone actually called south american in here!, is supposed to be a salsa tune, from the best of my judgement, but she plays like she has no respect for the "afro-cuban" style, the way its shaped, phrased and so on. Just because you put a beat behind you that sounds similar to some part of the world, and play over doesn't mean its world music.. Not to be totally negative, I think some of the things are OK, and headed in a original direction, but I don't think she looked into the styles enough to really bring out something original. Someone mentioned earlier in this discussion, that jean luc, L. shankar, and regina carter are years ahead...well, I agree, and I would add to that list just a few of the many: Alfredo de la fe, Gidon Kremer, Gilles Apap(for the gypsy music), John Blake..I guess I could keep going and going, so I'll stop. I think it's fair to take this album for what it is, which is basically a classical violinist playing over beats that sound similar to "rythms and melodies" from parts of the world. But if you want real thing, try some of those people I mentioned earlier
its just that when I hear vanessa mae playing salsa, it sounds like a 13 yr. old trying to be "exotic"....it doesn't really sound like salsa, thats why its hard for me to even appreciate it.
I agree, Patrick.
BTW, J.L.Ponty was the top student at the Paris Conservatoire( having won a prize playing the Tchaik. there) before he left to pursue jass (ye olde spelling).
It takes more than fast fingers and a form-fitting outfit to actually internalize a musical genre to the point of really understanding it.Until one digests a style and makes it their own, any attempt will be a shallow, fallow display.
If I may digress from VM momentarily:
Thomas, I enjoyed seeing and hearing Ponty in the 70's with Zappa, then Mahavishnu Orch. II, and finally his own combo. Would you mind listing one or more later recordings which you might recommend?
(aside: sorry Mike, I'm not current re your question, but last I heard some years back was that he was in a trio with Al Dimeola and Stanley Clarke; great partners!).
Ponty released his first DVD "Live" earlier this year. If you like Ponty you'll love this video.
I'm still trying to figure out why Buri's post merited a demerit. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, as far as I can see.
Greetings,
thanks Emil. Probably my spelling.
I think this demerit thing is something that has yet to be dewonked. I had the same query about another victim of demeriting on a different thread. I hope it isn`t going to put people off,
Cheers,
Buri
I can't figure out either why Buri's post got a demerit.
Difference of opinion on the topic? I still worry whether I accidentally demerited someone when the system first came up. My other computer has the mouse with a mind of its own which suddenly make the screen fly off in some strange direction. It flew as I clicked, I had to log off because the mouse was erratic, and can only hope that my click went to the intended merit and not unintended demerit.
If you feel someone is unjustly demerited, you can give them a star to un-demerit them. Is that in the dictionary, "un-demerit"?
double negative, would it be merit? no, darn.
Greetings,
this is what I warned about in the early discussion of points. The purpose of a list is to express opinions freely without worrying about others opinion (presupposing the norms of healthy disucsison and cooperation whihc we have morre or less had up till now).
As far as I am cocnerned anyone who posts me a demerit but hasn`t got the guts to explain why in public is wastign everyone`s time and has nothing of value to say. Thus, I couldn`t care less about their action,
Cheers,
Buri
I'm stunned that Buri's post was demerited: it demonstrates that not everybody with 'moderator status' has sufficient maturity to decipher an appropriate post from an inappropriate one. Ironically it's a No Star Day for me, Buri, or I'd be your knight in shining armour.
a tad rusty after fell in my own horse manure...
Wow, this thread has certainly grown!
I was curious about Buri's demerit yesterday, but I opted to keep quiet. The post in itself was harmless (even funny!) so I thought to just let it speak for itself.
For better or worse, I think I owe you guys a look at the final review which I submitted to PULP Magazine Philippines. I'm a bit worried that I might be setting myself up for some flak, but anyway here it is! :-)
(SEE END OF THIS POST)
Please forgive any inaccuracies; I always try to do thorough research and to undergo minute editing, but there's always the chance that something got by unnoticed.
The intended audience is teenagers and young adult professionals, so I tried to adjust my writing accordingly. Oh yeah, and I had a dang 400-word limit.
***
Vanessa Mae’s first outing on the Sony Classical label, Choreography puts aside the pop and electronica of her previous albums in favor of the earthy and almost spiritually transcendent quality of the world’s traditional musical forms, from Eastern European (“Sabre Dance”) to South American (“Tango de los Exilados”) to African (“Tribal Gathering”) to Indian (“Raga’s Dance”).
The album tracks were composed and arranged by a diverse group of artists including Vangelis (of “Chariots of Fire” fame), Grammy awardee Bill Whelan, Indian film composer AR Rahman, and European composer Walter Taieb (who produced The Alchemist’s Symphony based on the fiction of Paolo Coelho). Also on the album are two pieces that are no doubt familiar to audiences of classical music: Aram Katchaturian’s “Sabre Dance” and George Frideric Handel’s “Minuet.”
Accompanied by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Vanessa Mae keeps her music upbeat; as usual, her playing is very energetic. Her solos surge above the orchestral music and the occasional drumbeat or chant, leaving no doubt as to who is the commanding artist. Vanessa Mae’s quick playing provides a powerful counterpoint to the orchestra’s and other performers’ parts, but discerning listeners may tire of her limited dynamic range despite her clean violin technique.
Listeners of either classical or pop music who are looking for something lively will definitely like Choreography, which also lends itself as an interesting introduction to the violin and to classical and world music in general. Each track conveys some of the distinctive feel of its representative country, and you find yourself traversing continents without missing a beat.
With almost equal parts soulfulness and verve, Choreography is worth a listen regardless of whether you’re in a recliner or on the dance floor.
Rating: 4/5
I don't quite agree with you (I seldom agrees with people) but I am sure that others will and it is very well written!
Thank you for sharing that!
Mattias,
S'okay :-)
"It were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of opinion that makes horse races."
--Mark Twain, from the novel Pudd'nhead Wilson
Just out of curiosity, how many moderators are there now? (excluding Robert and Laurie)
A few hundred or more people are eligible. So on any given day, about 60 people are asked given the opportunity to moderate.
GVreetings,
rather like the Charge of the Light Brigade ;),
Cheers,
Buri
brit joke?
Greetings,
don`t think Brittney reads that kind of stuff...
Cheers,
Buri
i personally don't like most of VM's stuff, although I might go to sanity and check out that cd now...
Greetings,
ah, the power of advertizing,
Cheers,
Buri
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October 6, 2004 at 08:04 AM · I presume that she is happy and loves what she does, and I admire her for that.
But from a violinistic view she is not quite as successfull.
As a pro musician, all you have to do is play for money, and that she have succeded in.
But the art of violin is a very egoistic art, where you constantly tries to improve yourself. And for this there is no limit.
You can make more money than you can spend, but you can't have a more perfect techique than you can burn.
Techniqually, she can outplay most highschool violinists.
She has great security of the fingerboard and a good ear.
But there is parts where she needs improvment to be taken seriosly in the classical violin world.
She only plays with tempered intonation.
Her shifting is always loud.
Never plays anything but mf-f
Uneven stringcrossings.
Only plays on the string never in it.
Sloppy off string bowings.
Never changes colours.
To many consonants in legato.
And so on.
Musically she can compete with many students to.
But she needs to be able to play in more styles. To educate and cultivate her taste.
As a serious collector of violinmusic I have bought som of her recordings to.
7 cd's and 2 vhs, and I can see that she had a lot of potential as a kid but many of the positive things that I, as a classical violinist appreciate, saw in her playing when she was younger is not longer present in her playing today.
She has talent, but have sold it for money and hopefully for her own pleasure as a pop violinist.
Just my personal view.
Emil has a totally different view, and I believe that he would desribe here as vommit or a similar word :)