Slightly open mouth during play

June 21, 2013 at 04:23 PM · Teeth need to be separated a bit, and lips touching. VOMS (violinist open mouth syndrome) is sometimes created by poor set up. New chin rest or shoulder rest may be the call. Have her practice simple things while she concentrates on the lips being close.

June 21, 2013 at 04:40 PM · Difficult to say without observing her.

Far from being a "syndrome" - it may in fact be a sign of relaxation, or a symptom of something else. A good teacher is all you need.

I certainly hope that this will not spark yet another meaningless discussion about the usage of ergonomic accessories, also known as shoulder rest and chin rest.

June 21, 2013 at 07:30 PM · My view of this particular issue may strike you as peculiar. I am, after all, an amateur violinist - not a violin teacher or a professional musician.

Everyone, it seems, has commented on the "Heifetz" stage presence, in which he stands in one place and there is very, very little in the way of gestures or facial expression. Other great violinists (especially those of the past - Milstein, Menuhin, Francescatti, Oistrakh, etc.) - all seemed to have this "robotic" type of stage demeanor.

Anyway, take a good look at a film of Heifetz playing. It is well know that that he was a perfectionist who practiced everything obsessively and paid attention to every tiny detail, no matter how seemingly insigificant. He even had a reputation for mixing martinis to perfection when guests came to his house.

Given all this, it has always seemed to me that Heifetz very probably "practiced" his stage demeanor as carefully as he did his violin playing. If it's good enough for Heifetz, it ought to be good enough for the rest of us.

Therefore, practice playing with your mouth closed, or making (or not making) certain facial expressions or bodily movements as carefully as you practice playing the darned instrument.

Why not treat this issue as much of a challenge of careful practice as any other technical and musical challenge in playing the violin? Maybe you won't gain the kind of complete self-control of a Jascha Heifetz. And maybe you don't WANT to have that level of control.

But at the same time, I'm sure you don't want to do something that is out of control and that detracts from what you are trying to project musically. For example, if your mouth is open and you start drooling on your violin, I don't think that your audience is going to be listening as carefully.

Cheers,

Sandy

June 21, 2013 at 09:53 PM · I had the same problem for a while. I discovered that my chin rest was too low, so I instinctively opened my mouth to fill the gap between the bottom of my chin and the chin rest. After I got a taller chin rest, the problem went away. I also inhaled fewer bugs while playing :-)

June 21, 2013 at 10:39 PM · I find that if I get tens in the jaw area when playing, I clamp my mouth SHUT. It might be , as a previous poster mentioned, a sign of relaxation!. It indicates she is still breathing, that can't be all bad!

June 22, 2013 at 12:55 AM · I think it's very common to have some facial expression related to the challenges or tension that you're encountering in your playing. Some of that can be to signal to others that you're concentrating and are not to be disturbed; some of that can simply be an expression of your stress.

I've found myself doing that recently (pursing lips), and made a conscious effort to not do so. That was interesting, as it drew some of my focus away from the facial muscles to the playing of the music. So I think it makes for better playing, and of course better viewing, so if possible, it's probably best to break the developing habit early.

June 22, 2013 at 12:10 PM · You want to be careful about cementing a habit like this, because if you ever play outside, with insects flying around....!

But seriously to the OP - is your daughter completely comfortable breathing through her nose?

June 22, 2013 at 06:54 PM · Many thanks for all the replies, they gave me food for thought.

During other activities she breathes normally through her nose. I certainly do not want to cement this habit because it is something new and not exactly desirable, luckily there are no insects where she plays :-), still have to check whether she just opens her mouth or uses it for breathing as well.

The two violin teachers I know could not pinpoint the reason.

I tried experimenting with set up - after all kids have nasty habit of growing and the setup that was fitting perfectly before could have been outgrown - raising the thickness of the sponge by 4 mm (1/6 in); she claimed it was more comfortable but the mouth was still slightly open; during another practice I will try different thickness.

June 22, 2013 at 07:03 PM · OK, my joking aside, glad to clear up that there are no breathing problems. People develop all kinds of odd habits, whether on the violin or elsewhere. I had a student like that and through enough calling it to his attention, he came away from doing it.

June 22, 2013 at 10:27 PM · in my opinion an slightly open mouth is much better than an closed with the teeth together.

June 23, 2013 at 12:08 PM · Why bother her about it, at all? If she's relaxed and happy playing the violin, no need for concern if she opens her mouth slightly while playing. It sounds perfectly natural and probably self correcting when she gets older and more self-conscious. If you get on her case about something as trivial as this, which doesn't affect her musicianship, you run the risk of turning her away from the instrument. So much easier just to play basketball.

June 23, 2013 at 01:18 PM · I agree with Rocky saying that you need nothing else but a good teacher. There is no reason to make her self conscious. Perhaps it helps her relax and breath when she opens her mouth. From what I have been told breathing is most essential to making music with the violin. Miriam Fried, one of the great teachers opens her mouth slightly while playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0dXWdruw0U

June 23, 2013 at 05:36 PM · As someone who has had TMJ issues and has been working for a few years to relax my jaw as much as possible, I can't see the downside of playing with an open hanging mouth. However, I could see where asking for a closed mouth could result in tension, which will not benefit playing. Even beyond violin, setting up habits of jaw tension is bad, even if they make a person look more stoic. I'm not saying that any of this will happen, but I question the musical or other benefits of changing this habit.

June 24, 2013 at 02:22 AM · have a look at the video mentioned in the topic about the new concertmaster of the Detroit symphony playing the Brahms concerto. she has her mouth slightly open the whole time.

July 9, 2013 at 05:47 AM · Even great violinists can have this problem. I was watching some videos by Clayton Haslop, Paganini 24 in particular, and his playing is superb but he has this open mouth issue that is so disconcerting to look at I could not watch the video. If I saw him play live I would have to either close my eyes or leave the hall. How nobody ever coached the guy to close his lips is beyond me. Gould had it on the piano but it fit more with his style and also pianists do not face the listener.

July 9, 2013 at 02:28 PM · I'm interested in the range of "performance mannerisms"...so I had to go and check that out...and I wouldn't even have noticed!

Funny how something can really bother one person, and another not even notice.

July 9, 2013 at 05:28 PM · Everyone ought to read Arnold Steinhardt's account of seeing Mischa Elman in concert for the first time!

September 2, 2013 at 12:31 AM · To me, one of the great models of stage presence and facial expression is Zino Francescatti.

Check out his youtube performances of the Bazzini as well as some clips of the Beethoven Concerto, both from about 1950. It's all in the playing (which are great, great performances).

And his controlled but subtly expressive body movements and facial expression are just a wonder to watch, just as his combination of technique and emotion (without letting the violin get in the way of the music) are a wonder to listen to.

Even if you like your virtuosos hopping around and grimacing as if they they are experiencing some sort of bodily function, just take a few minutes and appreciate a giant of the art.

And I'm sure his mouth is closed through the entire performances.

Cheers,

Sandy

September 2, 2013 at 05:21 PM · I still don't get why this is a "problem"!