Hardest bach violin repertoire?
along with the bach sonatas, what do you think are the hardest bach pieces?
Replies (18)
Ditto on the fugues. The ones in the second and third sonatas especially...it's true what they say about spending a lifetime learning, performing, interpreting, and re-interpreting the solo works of Bach. :)
This, in general, applies to every similar question that we often get here, such as "which is the hardest concerto?" or "what should I study next?" etc.
There is a charming old movie called "They Shall Have Music". Jascha Heifetz stars, playing himself. It's about a struggling community music school that enlists Heifetz' help. At one early point he meets some of the kids, and asks them what they play, etc. One, the secondary star, says "I play the violin, just like you." (He's actually not much more than a talented beginner at that point.) He continues, "I tried to play what you played the other night (the Rondo Capriciosso) but it was too tough." Said Heifetz - and here's the point I'm getting to - "I'm afraid they're ALL tough". Yes, it was scripted, but I can't imagine that Heifetz, playing himself, would agree to say something in that regard that he didn't believe in.
Indeed, nothing is really easy to play well under pressure. Yes, of course certain things are harder than others. My recent all unaccompanied recital included the Bach a minor. I would agree re the fugue - not just technically as such, but keeping up the concentration. A momentary lapse and it's "hmmm...where did that chord go?" And in the time it takes to think that - even though ideally, you shouldn't be thinking anything, another chord has gone! It's like missing exits on the freeway! I've also performed at different times the G minor, the E major and the D minor - which I've also recorded - and indeed, "I'm afraid they're ALL tough!" Just recently, I performed the Bach Double with a very fine colleague and a professional orchestra. Coming off my work on that previous project that included the A minor and 3 Paganini caprices, the Double seemed much more manageable of course. But to get it to a high standard, pass muster with my colleagues, etc. was still no stroll in the garden. In fact, it went very well and I got a lot of good feedback.
But when we compare different pieces, even by the same composer, we are comparing apples and oranges. And what may be more difficult to one fine player may be less difficult to another, as there are different kinds of techniques and proclivities. Perlman has made the same point. That's why this sort of question cannot really be answered definitively. Yes, as a teacher, I would start a student with the Bach E major, as it is more straightforward, and less in a sense convoluted and mired than the others. But one last time, they're all tough - and all rewarding!
I have found the D minor Allemande to be the easiest piece among the S&P.
Regarding the Fugues, I can see where a violinist would consider those difficult. But that's partly because of the expectations that we put on ourselves for making sure every theme is correctly emphasized and the voices are all in balance. It's the same with the keyboard fugues, of which I have made a limited study in the past. When we do this we give little credit to the listener for being able to sort some of that out for himself. What I mean is that less skill might be needed just to make these pieces interesting and beautiful to the listener; the requirements we place before ourselves may be justified musically but not necessary in a more practical sense. I'm not arguing that 'good enough' should be our standard, but I think the gap between 'good enough' and our self-expectation is especially heightened in fugues which are sort of iconic and sacred in the minds of many classical musicians.
The hardest is typically one you play with a high-tension modern violin, synthetic strings and Tourte model bow.
Thats what I'll use then Rocky!
Although I can get through some gigas and other bits and pieces of the solo Partitias, I am STILL battling mightily with that blasted accompanied Sonata in A major (BWV 1015). the phrasing escapes me as soon as the bow touches the strings, the notes themselves are somehow so 'stressed' in their intervals. I know there is technically much harder Bach, but this is like Kreisler, its so much easier to look at and listen to than it is to play.
Amazing the contrast with the E major (BWV1016), which seems to submit to you like the ideal wife to her ideal husband!
John, perhaps I need to trans gender, and then it will all be easier.
"Amazing the contrast with the E major (BWV1016), which seems to submit to you like the ideal wife to her ideal husband!"
wait a mo, was that maybe Bach himself chipping in? I mean that might be understandable - but last time I looked we were in the 21st not the 18th century....
maybe if you changed 'ideal' for 'stereotyped'... :p
Für Elise: If you had the ideal husband, you wouldn't mind submitting to him in the least, unless you were unreasonable.
Für Charelle: I don't think you need to trans gender. I only ever played 1016, but seeing your post I had a peep at 1015 (I can only lay my hands on the score at the moment), and, frankly, I think I can see what you mean just looking at it, without even trying to play it. In terms of interpretability, 1014 looks somewhere in between the two.
'submit to' where do you get such language? The old testament? Dangerous ground... But he might have a lot more fun if he submitted to me. :)
And I have no idea which Bach is the hardest - I've only tried the tail end of hte rep and each piece is harder than the one before until you get used to it :)
Greetings,
“Ah! The strength of women comes from the fact that psychology cannot explain us. Men can be analyzed, women...merely adored.”
Cheers,
Buri
Buri ... xxx
Edit - by Oscar Wilde (from the play: "A perfect husband"
I think the hardest Bach piece would be the one on your music stand that you are attempting to play. :)
Now wait a minute...this may be more important than the whole Bach thing. I'd been told by several previous girlfriends - and it's strongly implied by the female voice of my GPS - that I'm supposed to listen to a woman and comply. Have I been misinformed??
Elise, it's the New Testament, actually. And submission only comes into it when disagreements cannot be resolved any other way, so I'm not sure whether JSB WOULD have had more fun with you.
I'd say that the most difficult movement of Bach to pull off, both technically and musically, is the first movement of the C major sonata.
Just try it.
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April 30, 2013 at 03:23 AM · Everything besides the solo sonatas are much easier, by an order of magnitude. I consider any of the 3 fugues to be more difficult than the movements mentioned. The Preludio is not that difficult, which is why so many start studies of Bach with it.
The Chaconne is long, but still not as difficult as the fugues, which can sound like someone chopping wood after a while.