Pirastro Oliv vs Eudoxa: regarding

April 10, 2012 at 06:24 PM · I know the olivs as very projecting. Especially the stiff D & G version has a solid edge. New Eudoxas are also always a pleasure but not a fun to tune. I wonder how you menage to tune those strings during rehearsals and concerts? Because I think Eudoxa and Oliv to me are the best sounding strings. Also they feel very nice ander the bow and the left hand. I want to try them again, but I fear to find them unpractical, because they wont stay in tune unless they are played in solidly and the temperature is stabil

April 10, 2012 at 09:19 PM · Adalberto, in my experience, Olives give a brighter sound than ordinary Eudoxas. I'll question whether our definition of "bright" is the same though, since your are getting that result with thick Eudoxas, and I generally find that thick strings kill brightness, beyond a certain point.

Passiones are a very nice string. I don't know many pros who use gut-core strings any more, but if one wanted to, I'd consider the Passiones to be a good choice.

April 11, 2012 at 02:03 AM · Olivs are super-bright. I wanted to have a bright tone for Mendelssohn so I used Oliv for that, but it's a bit too bright for me. That, and for some reason the E is painful.

Eudoxa, due to its material, is a bit darker on my violin... the sound is more mellow. The comparison is a bit like a 5'9" woman (Eudoxa) and a 5'2" woman (Oliv) singing at the same pitch.

April 11, 2012 at 08:44 AM · I have used Eudoxa/Passione/Passione Solo and Oliv.

I currently have Oliv on my violin and they are the brightest and the 'best sounding ones' in my opinion and on my violin anyway.

I don't perform in public I am only an 'amateur' student and have been learning for 5 years now, when I practice I practice for a couple of hours and I find that in the first 20 minutes of my practice I have to retune a couple of times, the A is always the one which goes out of tune the most (D and G only slightly).

If I was to perform in public I guess the best way to get around this problem would be to play my violin for 20 minutes in the 'changing room' or behind stage somewhere I cannot be heard so to 'stabilise' the strings, as otherwise they'd go out of tune in the middle of the concerto I am playing ;) LOL

April 11, 2012 at 11:45 AM · the way they go out of tune when not played in is why I don't play them anymore. Sometimes you play them in and then have to go through a cold room to the stage and everything is cold and out of tune again. You tune again, start to play the concert and they get warm and drop the pitch. It is a nightmare of tuning. But The sound is sometimes worth it.

I find Oliv having a very "modern" sound. They are so powerful, that you can mistake them for synthetic strings.

April 11, 2012 at 01:23 PM · Simon makes a good point (walking through a cold room on way to stage). I am not so 'blessed' to perform, but if I was I'd think twice about using Oliv though I love them so much.

I have found one brand of gut strings which were very stable though and bright too and they are the Gamut Tricolore plain gut strings, I shall return to those once I'm done with the Olivs I have on my violin right now (sorry I know the op does not ask about any other makes but Oliv specifically).

If you don't mind the tuning problems/stability then Oliv are great indeed

April 15, 2012 at 02:28 AM · Thanks to all who replied, kind people.

Mr. Streuff,

I found stability not to be a huge problem for me, but weather is not too bad in here, even now during Spring (NYC.) The G is basically rock-solid (not as stable as a synthetic, much less a steel string, of course), and the D is quite reliable, but because it IS the thickest gauge (and therefore thicker than the G), it is a bit less stable than the G (my fingerings sometimes lower its tuning ever so slightly down, but it is not a significant problem as tuning goes back up rather quickly, and I do not have trouble playing in tune due to this-I do NOT have perspiration problems, so this must be the warmth of my fingers affecting the overall intonation.) This problem may go away if I choose a thinner gauge D, but I do love it's great current syrupy tone (the best D tonally-wise I've ever used, very responsive, warm, and clear up to the highest registers.) Again, my strings are Rigid/Stiff, which may account for the relative stability, and they hardly ever get crushed by bow pressure (rigid+thickest gauges help on this regard.)

(The Eudoxa are IMHO also practical for orchestral/professional use, because they can be easily tuned right away in case of emergency-even on their thickest gauge, they are VERY easy to tune as the tension on the pegs is much more loose than with synthetics, IME.)

Mr. Burgess,

I highly respect your opinion, and I wouldn't doubt your statement to be true. I also have a similar definition as you do regarding brightness, especially if I remember what you wrote on your website when I visited it more than a month ago. I do believe my violin has a strange mix of brightness and warmth, and can be a bit loud, especially after a rather recently installed new soundpost. Even very warm strings tend to have edge, and I still haven't found a "dull enough" string for my violin. Even the thickest Obligatos didn't sound fully warm-the tone was VERY full but it always had a healthy amount of good clarity to it. That said, I am happy with my violin's "new sound", and it is really sounding better than it ever did, even when it had the Stark Obligato strings and the Oliv E. The thicker one gets the less the high frequencies resonate, and the warmer one is supposed to get, at the expense of response and tonal variety (even if the tone is louder under the ear.) But because my current A is very loud and brilliant (Orchestra tension steel Prim)I feel I cannot go too low tension with gut strings (not to mention the issue about bow-pressure and bow-response.) Even though the tension is higher, under the finger the Eudoxas feel VERY comfortable, perhaps even more so than many medium synthetics out there (the high tension Obligatos were incredible tense-and REALLY much less responsive-in comparison.) What you say, though, is that indeed the Olivs seem to be the brighter string, same gauges considered, regardless claims to the contrary by very few.

Ms. Takahashi,

I guess the Oliv was designed to have more brightness and "soloistic" overtones, as advertised, but it can be too much for some players and/or violins. My question was spurred because on my violin the 16 1/4 Rigid G Eudoxa, although indeed "warm", it still retains lots of clarity, and is devoid of any muddiness of fuzziness in the highest positions. Perhaps I thought that the bright character of the Olive G was not as big a difference between Rigid Oliv G vs Rigid Eudoxa G, but I see that in your experience, the differences are indeed significant (did you happen to prefer the Rigid Eudoxa G for that reason after all, or do you use a synthetic instead right now?)

Ms. Parker,

You are another vote for "Olivs are indeed brighter". Of course I obviate your stability problem by not using a gut A at all-that presents its own challenges, to be sure, but the way the A blends in with the steel E is rather natural (of course, then you have to find a better match for the steely tone of the A for the D string, or find the best steel A that works best in such a setup.) I am not ready yet to experiment with an unwound gut A (personal preference more than anything-not that it's "bad" nor does it sound inadequate, as plenty of great players use such a setup as well.) In time I will, I am sure. I guess the G is "worth it" and indeed brighter for most people that do use and love it after all (I must say, though, that the Eudoxa Rigid G is marvelous on its own, and IME, VERY stable.)

So it seems the consensus is, after all, that the Eudoxas, even on their Rigid/Stiff form, are not as bright as the Olivs. The Olivs are also louder for most (if not all) individuals. Thus, the Eudoxa's redeeming qualities seem to be what it is not, as much as what it is (seeming to be the warmer string, and not as aggressive, if that's what a player or violin-or both-prefer.

I wonder if the Quinn Violins comment was a typo, misinformation, or just honest, personal opinion based on their experience. Or perhaps they think that Olivs, since they are supposedly "richer", must be "less bright?" I guess it's all about what "brightness" means for most of us. :)

April 15, 2012 at 10:44 AM · I may be wrong here, but I have the feeling, that the Eudoxa strings need a certain Kind of playing regarding the bow. More bowspeed and less pressure. With Olivs I was always astonished how similar they feel to some synthetic strings. Maybe its the tension.

btw: nice summary! Maybe I will try some rigid Eudoxa or Oliv soon again. My strings are worn up again anyways. But I remember having bad bad problems with the windings of some of the d strings (unfortunately I never remembered if it was the aluminium or silver version of the oliv stiff). This issue is terrible at hat price, I played them for one or two weeks and then the string starts to feel like a wound guitar string and also makes thet noises during shifts. An Gut A was really too much tuning for me to handle, I once used a oliv a wich sounded very powerful and good, but I could never hold the a for more than some minutes accurately

May 1, 2012 at 06:23 PM · Reviving my old thread just to ask if a lower girth wound-gut D string would be likely to solve the "problem" I discussed above (that of the 17 gauge Eudoxa Rigid/Stiff D almost always slightly getting lower in tune with extended left hand finger contact, due to finger warmth-the strings are super pitch stable and well worn-in, so further stretching is not the issue.) Perhaps experienced Eudoxa users have a good say on this.

Many thanks in advance, and have a beautiful and musical day. :)

May 1, 2012 at 08:31 PM · Eudoxa is among the wound-gut strings I use most often. I play on the stiff -- or rigid -- D-G. Medium D -- slightly thinner at 16.75 instead of 17 -- works very well for me. It's worth at least a tryout -- it might solve your problem. My experience with heavy-gauge strings is that they yield a bigger sound but can give a slower response.

As a modern player, I won't use the Eudoxa regular D-G, because the tone breaks or crushes too easily; whereas the stiff versions offer a little more tension, which I prefer, and greater resilience under intense bow pressure; so I can apply considerable bow pressure without worrying -- very pleased with the results on my instruments.

Back to your earlier point about Olivs: I will gladly play on the Oliv stiff D-G but not the regular versions -- same situation as with Eudoxa. I won't use the Oliv E-A but will gladly substitute Passione regular E-A with Oliv stiff D-G -- a 50/50 split setup.

Hope this helps.

May 1, 2012 at 10:26 PM · I can't comment on Olivs, never having used them. I have a violin which is strung with Eudoxas, partly because it is tonally very bright to the extent of needing darker strings. They seem to hold their pitch fairly well, but that may be because my locality has quite constant and relatively high humidity. I'm grateful for the comments on this thread: if I should need brighter strings, I would seriously consider Olivs.

@Simon, Thank you for your tip about 'more bowspeed and less pressure' when playing on Eudoxas; I'll bear that in mind.

May 1, 2012 at 10:35 PM · the fact with gut strings is, that not only the temperature outside is important, but that they get a higher tempereature from playing with the left hand. So before concert make sure every gut string has been touched in many position. Thats the ideal... but who has always time for that and as I said a cold room before the stage can change everything back again? Man, i miss those strings soundwise, but they are just soo unpractical. One can learn to handle them quite good, but still you will never be the one with the reliable A, if you have an gut a ;) and someone has to be that guy!