Rosewood as strong as Boxwood and Ebony?
I've only been playing for a couple of months, but I'm so involved with violins that all I do in my spare time at work is read up and learn as much as possible. :o)
Is Rosewood just as strong as Boxwood or Ebony? I've seen pieces that are made of that and someone told me that Boxwood and Ebony are the ones that I'd want to stick with. What type of wood would you recommend?
Replies (14)
Yup, Brian's right. In the end, just pick whichever wood looks best with your violin, but boxwood comes in a whole range of shades, so watch out when you're picking out online fittings from boxwood. In my opinion, boxwood pegs pull off the ornamental look(the ivory or ebony rings and pips) best out of all three woods, so if you're into them, I suggest the boxwood pegs.
Some people like using only wood for their fittings. Some people like mixing and matching. On my violin, I have a closer-to-reddish flamed boxwood tailpiece and an ebony chinrest and Swiss-style pegs. It's your violin, so whatever style you like will suit it. I'm sure you can go to your local luthier when you're ready to buy and ask if you can gently put unfitted pegs in your violin without the strings to see what looks best.
Hi,
Thats a very interesting question you asked.
I too did some researched regarding the woods. In the end the conclusion is as follows.
I found out that ebony or the harder woods tend to get your a louder sound on your violin and the softer ones like boxwood tends to give you a softer sound however the difference is not really alot so its up to you.
To add on, rosewood pegs tend to be more user friendly because the grains of the rosewoods are larger and they can "trap" the peg dope and graphite easier than the other woods. Also I heard from people that Rosewood also produced/releases its natural oil in the wood to make the turning of peg smoother.
Hope it helps! Sherman.
I have to say - purely from an aesthetic point of view - for me it has to be ebony every time. But what do I know?
The characteristics of woods called "boxwood" and "rosewood" can vary quite a bit. So can ebony, for that matter. I mostly use ebony, finding it to be the most durable overall.
The effect on sound of the various woods isn't uniform, and can vary from one fiddle to the next.
Gravitas has boxwood fittings (the first violin I have had that was outfitted this way). The result is very suave indeed! I will have to ask John if the wood was chosen for any reason beyond esthetics. Can someone expound on the comment above about hypoallergenic? I had never heard of an ebony allergy...
In addition to strength, with boxwood being somewhat weaker and ebony usually being stronger, there is a correlation with hardness. Boxwood is also softest and deforms soonest in the peg hole. There's a wide variation in Rosewood, but there is a good reason why ebony has become the preferred wood-- it stays "roundest" longest and gives the longest useful life.
But Wait!! There's More!! :-)
There is a very strong whole-instrument vibration that occurs on the violin at certain frequencies. The node (the part that is bending) occurs at about the nut, while the anti-node (the part that is moving) occurs most vigorously at the scroll and peg box. You can visualize it as the scroll flapping up and down on a hinge at the nut. The intensity of this mode varies according to the size and weight of the scroll and peg box. Don't worry if you haven't a clue what I'm talking about. If you've ever played a violin that seemed vibrant and alive in your left hand, you'll know what I'm talking about.
But Wait!! There's Still More!! :-)
Long way to get to the point, but boxwood is lightest, rosewood is spread across the middle, and ebony is heaviest (because it is the densest) wood. Soo-ooo . . . if you change pegs from, say, ebony to boxwood, you might be surprised to find that the sound of your instrument changes, too, because you are changing the weight of the scroll and peg box.
Sheesh. Just when you thought it was safe to put new pegs on your fiddle . . .
My luthier once said that if I wanted to change my fittings to boxwood fittings, I ought to buy a prematched set, since it's harder to find matching pieces of boxwood than it is for the other varieties of wood.
About boxwood being more hypoallergenic than the other woods, I don't remember where I read that, though I found it back when I was looking for a new chinrest. A quick Google search didn't direct me to the source.
'Boxwood' nowadays is just a name for a color. Under that color you'll find several different woods, usually not the boxwood of the past. There's a South American 'boxwood' that is commonly marketed in this country. I suspect the Chinese may sometimes use a local variant of jujube.
Andres point is a good one. This whole thread made me chuckle--who knows what species of wood anything is? Spruce top, but which spruce? Maple back, but which maple? "Carpathian" spruce. Yeah, which one? "Ebony" could be a number of dark species. Etc. Etc. Wood is sold under a confusing range of names which often include multiple species. And to add to that, there is often more than one name for a given group! For instance, "mahogany" could be swietenia macrophylla, or the similar--but not the same--swietenia mahagoni. And that is just the "true" mahoganys--the word "mahogony" is also applied to completely unrelated woods from across the pacific ocean: The dark red shoreas, and it gets even better, because shorea is also known as lauan--and is a group of many species. Historically, the shorea that is used as a mahogany substitute is termed "Philippine Mahogany" but this is often dropped--especially with guitar builders.
Of course some violinmakers know exactly what wood they used, as they cut it down themselves, but most obviously don't and I expect that the fittings suppliers buy balks of timber from wholesalers...
Right. The harder and better quality "boxwood" is "buxus sempervirens". Many of the accessories made from other boxwood-appearing wood are pretty junky and soft. "Mountain mahogany" can be very close in color, without requiring staining like boxwood does, and is generally tougher than the best quality boxwood. Eric Meyer uses that for some of his accessories. It really has nothing to do with mahogany, and is another of those very dense woods, like ebony, which won't float in water. We cut quite a bit of it when I was working in the Weisshaar shop, to be made into "Weisshaar" pegs.
Thank you all for the responses! I'm learning a great deal and this is helping me with my decisions! Cheers!
David, I've heard many a tale about those "Chain Gang" trips to Big Bear, would have loved to be part of that group of "Axe Men". Come to think of it, I hear there is a movie of the expedition floating around somewhere. Of all the woods that I've ever turned, for pegs, I like that particular locations mountain mahogany as the best pegwood for hardness and color.
I've been thinking about putting together an article about the various wood species used for fittings. It's a tough one to write since there are so many opinions and wood loyalties out there. Folks get very protective of their favorite wood and often make generalizations that are sometimes true, but many times unfounded. I'm sure to get some real flack if I give my likes and dislikes so I have to make my observations as empirical as possible. This all sometimes resembles a discussion on favorite breeds of dogs, for the love of Pete. I've never liked Dobermans, for example, but i wouldn't want to have that discussion with someone who owns and loves one.
As several posters have pointed out common names often muddy the water. There are many woods called boxwood, rosewood, ebony, and mahogany. They vary in location and sometimes are not even in the correct species for the namesake. Hardness and quality are all over the place making generalizations a nightmare. There are some classic woods that exemplify the best of these names but it's really better to go by the Latin if one is to make any claims as to suitability fo fittings. I've got different grades of ebony, and there are so many species of rosewood used along with the classic dalbergia nigra, and even wood that I bought as nigra varies quite a bit in density.
Janka measurements are made by pressing a steel ball into the wood and measuring the force needed to puch it half way. I, at least, have taken pieces and weighed them comparatively. Here are my results in order of grams per cubic inch.
Blackwood (grenadille, dalbergia melanoxylon) 20.4, ebony 19.6, olive wood 19.2 (a surprise), mountain mahogany (cercocarpus ledifolius) 18.9, pernambuco (barely sinking) 17.3, French boxwood (buxus 16.7, and the best piece of rosewood I've ever used 16.7. Other pieces of very nice looking rosewood that I bought as Brazilian (nigra) (when it was legal) vary from 13.8 to 15.
To answer the original poster, in my experience as a wood turner rosewood may be the favorite peg wood for many, but if it is, it is not because of it's relative hardness, but for the resin in it that makes it work smoothly. I find it pretty soft to turn. Very good boxwood is difficult but not impossible to find and it's natural color (pale cream) is totally dependant on how one treats the staining of it and what chemicals are used in the process. The wood may be hypoallergenic or not but coloring it scares the hell out of me. I've got a piece of wood from the Hill workshop, intended for pegs. It says right on it that it is from Salonica (northern Greece) but I don't plan on cutting it up or seeing if it floats.
Oh, BTW I've perused the various species hardness graphs on the web, and not only are they mostly based on selling you flooring but at mostly full of sawdust. :)
As they say on the TV commercials: other's results may vary, but there is a lot of conventional wisdom out in violin land that is based in rumor and doesn't play out in my humble experience, limited as it is as a wood worker.. In all cases find a talented luthier to fit whatever pegs you decide on.
Oh gawd, not a movie from the 70s!. I'll be the guy with mid-back-length curly hair. The stuff we used to do for 80 to 100 bucks per week, in exchange for the privilege of working in the Weisshaar shop!
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December 29, 2010 at 09:19 PM ·
From what I've heard, rosewood is midway between ebony and boxwood in terms of strength, with ebony being the strongest, and boxwood being the softest (and also most hypoallergenic). It really just depends on which one you like.