The Bouree from Cello Suite no 3 by JS Bach

April 30, 2010 at 04:56 PM ·

Notes wise, it's not all that difficult. However, it's surprisingly difficult to play and sound nicely for intermediate level. Some of the string crossings and fingerings have be to extra careful to pull off cleanly. So yes, IMHO it's an intermediate level piece. Notes doesn't mean everything.

It's a lovely piece, I love it very much.

April 30, 2010 at 06:49 PM ·

It's the last piece in Suzuki Book 3, so I'd classify it as a beginner piece technically, but I don't really know at what playing level can one start being called an intermediate player - Suzuki book 5? Vivaldi Four Seasons? Mendelssohn Concerto in E-minor?

That said, it does not really matter what level it is -- it's a beautiful piece, and deserves to be played beautifully. Elman played many pieces that do not require flashy virtuosity, but he played them with such beauty and refinement, no one would think playing them diminishes his stature as a great violinist. I'd say it's best not to be too hung up on the level thing.

April 30, 2010 at 11:51 PM ·

 Thank you Casey  and Joyce for your comments.  It really helps.  I guess it is always best to put the music first and not worry about anything else.  If Henryk Szeryng played "Mary had a little lamb". It probably would be a show stopper.

thanks again

rob

May 1, 2010 at 12:11 PM ·

The spelling is Bourrée, not Bouree

May 1, 2010 at 03:19 PM ·

The spelling one sees depends on where one sees it. Robert's spelling is the one given in Suzuki Violin Book 3 and in my Schirmer edition of the cello suites (the one from which I studied the suites as a cello student). Daniel's is the one given in other violin, and cello editions of the suites that I have and in Suzuki cello book 7, where these movements are first given for cello students.

And therein is another story: that the same music given for violin in Book 3 is given for cello in book 7. For those few of us who play both instruments at about the same level, there are some things that are more difficult on violin and some on cello. Cellists's left hands have to jump around an awful lot to play the same things that violinists and violists can play while remaining in one position. For example, after I had spent some time working out Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata on cello, I got the viola edition and found I could sight read it about as well as I could play it on cello after working it out for some time -- and I am a pretty lousy viola player - same thing with the Elgar cello concerto - incomparably easier on viola, yet it sounds just as good.

The Bourrée from Bach's 3rd suite is definitely an intermediate level (whatever that means) for cello and a lower level for violin (or viola).

Andy

May 1, 2010 at 03:34 PM ·

Andy, the Revised Edition (2008) of Suzuki Violin Book 3 now has the "Bourrée" spelling.

May 1, 2010 at 03:57 PM ·

Mozart had a little lamb..

May 1, 2010 at 05:32 PM ·

I guess poor old JSB only had a french keyboard available when he composed his cello suites, which is why he was forced to give french titles to most movements?

May 1, 2010 at 07:37 PM ·

 Thanks for the replies.  I have been working very hard on the violin and to hear I can at least consider my-self a lower end intermediate  violin player is encouraging.  However; I am only referring to physical difficulty. 

I would think the step coming from almost a beginner to a lower level intermediate level is very wide in physical difficulty, and the step moving to a advanced level coming from intermediate level would be shorter in physical difficulty.   Why is that?  At the intermediate level, the rewards  are more than I am use too. How long does it  normally take for an adult student to go from the beginning stages to the lower level intermediate level? 

Another problem I am  having is my ear is becoming more demanding. But that should be another discussion topic.  

May 1, 2010 at 09:35 PM ·

When on plays in first position only, he is exploring about 1/4 of the usable range of the violin. To explore it all (in "numbered positions) you would have to add 4th position, 8th and (God forbid) 12th. But to actually play over that range one would play in all 12 of those positions. Suzuki Books 1 through 3 are all about 1st position and some bowing stuff.

You see where I'm going with this (re. beginning, "intermediate," and advanced).

In my opinion, once one is through Book 4, with parts of a couple of "real pieces, one has done some 2nd and 3rd position stuff and has a better sense of what the rest of the fingerboard is about (and some more bowing stuff). At this point, I think players who can also read music credibly at this level are ready for some community orchestra 2nd violin sections and ready to consider that they are playing at an "intermediate" level with good prospects to advance.

I was (what I now consider) a slow starter as a kid violinist and stopped for a year when I was 12.  When I picked it up again about a year later I was at about the same level I had stopped, but I was very motivated, but playing at a level that would now be about the middle of book 4. Within a year I had performed Massagnet's Meditation from Thais in public, and was set to become concertmaster of my HS orchestra. I never became what I would now consider an advanced player,although my ego had me thinking I was close up to 55 years ago (or so). Since then I've tended to become a better fiddler (in many ways, not all), but more modest about it. The good fortune to play with even better fiddlers does that to one.

A "demanding ear" is essential. No one wants to play with you if you are out of tune (and don't know it and don't fix it).

Andy

May 2, 2010 at 01:34 AM ·

 Thank you, that was very helpful.

 I am getting the "Sonatas and Partitas: for Solo Violin (Schott)" ,Henryk Szeryng; Paperback; $13.22.  This edited version will have the hand / finger positions I need.  Then I can start to play in other positions

I started a new discussion called : “Playing scales on a single string”, your comments are very helpful.

Rob

May 2, 2010 at 02:24 AM ·

Rob, I don't think there is a consensus as to what "intermediate level" means, so it's hard to answer your question about how long it will normally take for an adult student to go from a beginner to the intermediate level. Maybe some experienced teachers on v.com have something to say about this.

As a 10-month beginner, I found myself doing things and playing stuff that are all over the ASTA graded repertoire scale - I realized that I am not developing everything at the same rate across-the-board, and the time required to develop each technique varies for everybody. So, I have stopped worrying about what level I'm at and will continue to call myself a beginner until I can play Mendelssohn Concerto in E-minor creditably. (Which means I may forever be a beginner. :) ) At the same time, I wonder why we feel the needs to label ourselves one way or the other?

Also, while there is a correlation between one's skill level and the pieces one can play, it's not definite - someone who can play "Long, Long Ago" that makes me cry (not from agony), is not at the same level as someone who scratches through the Suzuki Book 1 piece...

May 2, 2010 at 03:08 AM ·

From one who has studied the cello suites for a decade...  they are demanding. The 6th Suite IMHO is the most demanding from a technical standpoint.  However, all of the suites are demanding from a musical point of view.