Humidifier in case is smelly - so is case... I'm worried!

May 26, 2009 at 07:21 AM ·

 Maybe too much water? Why don't you try some other kind of humidifiers? Since I got my Planet Waves I have put my tube humidifiers in the trash bin. I have two violins, I only play one of then every two weeks as the other one is brand new and needs a lot of playing. I have never experimented such an "odor issue". 

May 26, 2009 at 12:11 PM ·

why not applying a tiny drop of your cheapest perfume?

Haj

May 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM ·

Your local luthier or one of the ones on this site should be able to help.  Sounds a bit odd.  Did you use distilled water?

May 26, 2009 at 01:36 PM ·

Do you have to use distilled water? That'll be pain. I would guess that the weather was humid and the humidifier didn't have time to dry out? It never happens to us since we are always behind humidifying. 

May 26, 2009 at 01:51 PM ·

The smell either comes from the water or is caused by the water. Sponge-type humidifiers that require wetting should always be put in a closed case just damp, never soaking wet. Just one is enough, especially the types that are inserted into the f-hole. You probably have a mold problem. Throw the dampit away (or soak it in some bleach and let it dry thoroughly, if you can stand the smell.

Remove *everything* from the case and close it. Give it a good sniff about 24 hours later. If there's no smell, then the problem is in whatever you removed. If the smell persists, it is possible that water has accumulated in a certain spot repeatedly over time and mold has started. Since mold spores are always in the air, this is something that it difficult to avoid when circumstances are favorable.

Take the case outside to air it out. Let the sun shine on the interior for a day or two, but not more or the sun will start doing damage. The UV will kill mold spores on the surface of materials. I hope this helps!

May 26, 2009 at 01:52 PM ·

Oh, poor you! I despise that smell. Good suggestion on applying a tiny drop of perfume (but heck, why the cheapest? Make it the best/most expensive stuff!). That and an appropriate spell of sunshine, as suggested.

May 26, 2009 at 02:11 PM ·

Thanks for ideas and sympathy - much appreciated.  Having left the humidifier tube out for last 24 hours, the smell of that seems to have almost gone.  Still a bit pongy in the case so I'll leave it open in my sunniest room with windows open to catch some fresh air  - hopefully that will solve the problem.  I know I have some Febreze fabric freshener so might very carefully dab a drop or two of that on the offending area of fabric while case is open and empty.

One question - would using distilled water have made a difference?   Maybe that is my mistake here?   I know I did soak the tube thoroughly - in ordinary tap water, but as always I am careful to make sure there are no drips and the outside of tube is completely dry before putting it back in the case.

It is like having a baby isn't it?  The slightest thing going wrong related to the violin and one gets in a panic!   I was never so concerned with my other violin Charles...

May 26, 2009 at 02:16 PM ·

I have the Waves humidifier and always use distilled water.  Otherwise, unwanted life forms can grow on the material that holds the water.  When they do, it tends to cause an odor.  Someone at this site once posted a description of what happens when you use tap water in a similar humidifier.  I do not know how your system works, but you are always safer using distilled water if you can (although you do not need to use it for a dampit).

May 26, 2009 at 02:30 PM ·

Have you tried to contact Mr. Musafia? Since it's a Musafia case I am sure he will be more than glad to help you with this issue.

Best of luck.

May 26, 2009 at 02:39 PM ·

A cotton or muslin bag with baking soda in it will take the odor out.  Some people have sprinkled a little baking soda in the case and vacumed it out with a wand attachment but I like the muslin bag trick.  They are easy to make and can also be found in places that sell crafts and potpories.  Even healthfood/herbal stores sell them.  My healthfood place here in Laramie has oodles of them. 

May 26, 2009 at 05:21 PM ·

Had that happen to me twice. I took everything out and gave the case some sun for a few hours a day. The rest of the time for a week or so I left the case open and that killed the mold just starting up. The cause was too much humidity.

May 27, 2009 at 12:04 AM ·

Thanks again everyone - the latest update is I've had the case open all afternoon in a nice sunny breezy room and the smell seems to have 98% disappeared, so I guess another airing tomorrow and that should be ok.

I'd still like to know from anyone if I should only be using distilled water to soak my Musafia case humidifier tube?   If so, I'll definitely see if I can buy some at a store. 

I think in hindsight I should probably have taken out the humidiifier tube when I got back from the gig in the low humidity envionment - it had done its job by then and the room where the case lives at home is quite stable in our regular British weather.

May 27, 2009 at 07:05 AM ·

 Rosalind,

What are your case hygrometer readings like? 

May 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM ·

There must be quite a bit of humidity within the case if a smell issue is starting to arise. I’m glad that things are improving now that you opened the case and exposed it to sunlight! If you put a tiny bit of Febreeze into your humidifier it will help literally kill the case odor.

The odds that your case hygrometer is giving you an accurate reading is very slim, even from the most reputable dealer. Please read David Burgess’s page about testing hygrometers, and humidity. If you search online, it’s very easy to get started.

Humidifiers/wet strips that insert into the ffs are really nonsense, and can damage your violin… there must be a ton of old threads about it. I now try to control the humidity of the environment, rather than sticking things into the body of my violins. The results of regulating room humidity have been very beneficial… no opening seams (which can be a big problem in the North due to extremely dry winters).

May 27, 2009 at 01:07 PM ·

my take is that the issue is not just about humidity or odor, but the causes of or the conditions leading to the odor.

i don't have any background in public health, but one thing to keep in mind is that the set-up--high humidity, lack of air and light exposure, the use of the "soaking" material over a long period of time without disposal and fresh replacement,  etc can accelerate microbe growth around the violin and the case.   some lawyers make a living in the USA off hyping mold formation and its effect on health.  my take is that just be careful, since violinists can be dealing with similar situations, just on a smaller scale.   can anyone here predict when the bread in the fridge will become moldy?  no one can for sure.   since we cannot really see and feel the little buggers,  i would suggest the following, under ideal conditions in utopia:)

1. wipe off excess sweat or any other bodily fluid after play and leave it out of the case for a while to air dry before putting back into the case. (not sure how many on the run violinists can really do that...)   any fluid on the violin can be transferred onto the fabrics of the case.  once it is transferred, it is there to stay and one cannot see it  but chances are that one can smell it later.  would people consider wrapping the violin in a soft towel (?silk scarf) to avoid direct contact with the fabrics of the violin case so that periodically the towel can be washed?  sort of functioning like a violin undie:)

2. secretions from our body has a low level of protein and other elements, the essential diet for the microbes already living inside the case, introduced by us on a daily basis.  concur that it probably won't hurt to leave the case open under the open air sunlight often.  but the other concern is that the UV can be damaging to the fabrics with repeated exposure. 

3. imo, it will be great (i am not sure if it is done already) that case humdifier makers can design and provide replacement soaking materials so that every couple months, a new insert is introduced, cutting down the risk of microbe buildup.  it may be too much for an average violinist to competently sterilize the gadget inside and out.

May 27, 2009 at 03:55 PM ·

I'd suggest that the original poster email Sr. Musafia with the DI water question. Might as well go the the source for info. If the humidifier is the origin of the odor, it can easily be replaced.

Glad the sunlight process is working.

May 31, 2009 at 12:59 PM ·

Here is my view as an ex-biochemist with experience in microbes in food.

I spent a lot of time in the lab trying to get really clean water and keep it that way.  It's hard.  Distilled water supports the growth of many microbes, including toxic ones.  If you are storing a bottle of water outside the refrigerator  for weeks or months, you should add a few drops of Clorox to destroy the bugs.  Actually, it is very difficult to get really clean water, even from containers of distilled water.  Once you open the bottle, you let in carbon dioxide and nitrogen, which support, and may even promote, the growth of microbes.  There are also chemicals which leach out of the plastic and into the water, adding more nutrients for the bugs.  My advice is that whatever your source of distilled or other water is, change it after a few weeks.

I think Robert Spear's and Al Ku's remarks are very good.  I agree.

Ian Burkard said "The odds that your case hygrometer is giving you an accurate reading is very slim, even from the most reputable dealer."  Speaking as an ex-chemist, I agree completely.  Measuring humidity in the air is a difficult process, and results are often unreliable.

The fabric lining the inside of your case and lying on top of your violin can be a big source of trouble.  Water can hang in there, and so can bugs.  When buried deep in the fabric, they are very hard to remove.  Think of the problems of removing malodorous junk from a carpet.

I think that letting your case dry out in the sun is a very good idea.  Some of the smelly odors will vaporize away, and the UV light from the sun helps kill any remaining bugs.

The suggestions for ways to make your case smell better sound good from an aesthetic point of view, but remember that pleasant odors can mask bad ones.  The bad odors from mold, etc. may still be there, but your olfactory system will be tricked into not noticing them.

I've had similar troubles twice with a car.  The stories about them can be very entertaining in hindsight, but when they happened, they were awful.  I truly sympathize with you.

All things considered, I believe that the sunshine treatment is the best in this situation.  I'm sorry you've had to put up with all this.  Good luck in getting things back to normal.

May 31, 2009 at 06:01 PM ·

I'm not sure distilled water will always be available, but maybe treat it like water in an area you don't trust; boil it, microwave it, etc. or whatever you can do to kill any life forms.
Let it cool before you use it, however; steam is not good.

Al,
I can predict when the bread in the fridge will become moldy!!!!
It's easy... it will become moldy immediately when exposed to air. The level of mold will stay fairly minor until there is enough breakdown or a large enough colony, and then it will become 'noticeable'; then we generally discard it. However, the process starts immediately.