Unwinding of string-help!

May 4, 2008 at 04:50 AM · The over-wrapping starts unwinding off the core, you mean?

Is there one spot in particular-specifically nut or bridge? Or does it occur over the normal fingered length of string?

If the problem is at the bridge/not and string interface-then some pencil graphite at those spots can help...also keeping your playing environment more stable so you have to tune less.

If the problem is over the fingered length of the string-keep your fingernails short, and watch your finger pressure.

A month for a set can be normal depending on how many playing hours you get from a set. I play on Passiones-andd those are around $90 a set and those last me around 5 weeks before the tone starts going.

May 4, 2008 at 07:22 PM · This is one of the reasons I don't use Pirastro: They unwind in a way that Dominants rarely do, and you can see the winding begin to separate in high-stress areas almost immediately (like on the bridge).

May 5, 2008 at 01:38 AM · I had the same problem actually Scott with Dominants on the Amati. Check a few things 1) make sure your nails are always clipped and that your hands are always clean 2) if the winding comes undone near the nut, it is a problem with the nut not he string 3) unneccasary left hand pressing/tension will create extra friction which can lead to the string wearing out quicker.

May 7, 2008 at 12:25 AM · Piano bass strings (the ones with the copper winding) can have similar problems, but obviously with much more catastrophic and expensive consequences. The problem is that the winding loosens while the string is without tension and being stored and shipped. Standard practice when installing new base strings is to hook them up at the back, then run them through the tuning pin (the steel pin with the square head) at the correct length (taking into account how much length will be wound), then bending their end into an L. Now, with an assistant pulling them sideways to give them some tension, grab that L with pliers, and spin them a few turns. Spin them in the direction which will tighten the copper windings, not loosen them (duh). Now, without releasing either the tension or the torque on them, start spooling them onto the tuning pin; after a turn or two, they won't spin any more, and you can let go of the pliers. Obviously, doing this with a large and heavy string, in confined quarters, is quite difficult.

There are two reasons this is important. First, if the copper windings are actually loose, they will make a horrible rattling sound. More subtly, the tone of a properly torqued string is actually significantly different; it has to do with the transition of the string from a linear vibrating mode (after it is hit by the hammer) to a rotating mode (because the effective length of the string is different horizontal versus vertical, and also because the stiffness of the string makes it not be a perfect harmonic oscillator, so it is energetically advantageous to share the energy into all modes).

I wonder whether it might help to do the same on a violin string: after hooking it at the bridge, tighten the winding by spinning it a few times. Like this, the winding starts really nice and tight, and might last longer before coming loose.

May 7, 2008 at 07:01 AM · Don't twist the strings please :-) I understand, what Ralph mentions. It really works on piano bass strings. But the construction of violin strings is completely different, ususally more sophisticated. There are mostly two windings wound in opposite directions. Moreover the core of the strings is pretwisted too. The sound quality would be harmed by twisting the string by customer.

The real reason of wearing and unwinding violin strings is aggressive sweat. The aggressinvess of the sweat is a matter of genetic predisposition and nourishment. {For example - the sweat of vegetarians is much less aggressive}. In any case washing hands before playing the instrument is recommended.

May 7, 2008 at 08:42 AM · Has nothing to do with nails, actually. I'm a chronic nail biter, plus my Dominants last only three weeks before unraveling.

It also has little to do with body chemistry and sweat, because I have some of the driest hands on the face of the planet. I don't even leave visible fingerprints on photos.

The fingerboard is irrelevant, because I've had this happen on two different violins, on freshly planed fingerboards and potholed fingerboards alike.

I do dare say it has something to do with the amount of pressure you use. Also, the amount of practice time you're logging, of course. And I'd also like to think that I shred mine because of my intense vibrato and pitch accuracy. After all, if I'm unraveling at first position D on the A string, it may have something to do with how many times I hit that particular spot.

A strings are prone to wearing out first, from my experience.

May 7, 2008 at 09:44 PM · I dimly recall reading somewhere that some huge percentage of a violinist's time is spent on the A string--much more than any other string. I've sometimes wondered why no-one sells a string bundle that automatically comes with two A strings so you can change one out before the entire set goes. These days, I change out a whole set of strings at a time, but as a student, I routinely changed single strings to stretch out their lives as long as possible....

May 8, 2008 at 02:47 AM · When I used Dominants, I changed them whenever one of them started to unwind. For me it was always at first position D on the A string. I always assumed that this was simply due to wear and tear on the most frequently occurring note in whatever I'd been playing. Using Passiones now - can't wait to see where they unwind.

May 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM · Well Anthony-

Wound gut strings don't go the way synthetics do. The tone will be gone, and the strings false long before they ever unwind.

The Fact is, you won't want to keep those strings on your violin long enough to find out ;>) (I just ordered more Passiones....this will be my 3rd or 4th round)

PS-Emily, when you're using gut/wound-gut strings nails do matter, also gut-cores are far more sensitive to body chemistry than synthetics....I'm a sweaty type and Dominants/Evahs would last me for quite a long time-not that I like thier tone in comparison to what I can get now of course, :>)

May 9, 2008 at 10:57 AM · Marc, I was pointing out that strings can wear out even if nails don't interfere in the least. And they wear out even with dry hands. That's the point I was making.

May 9, 2008 at 10:18 PM · Thank you all for your very helpful responses. I truly believe that my particular problem stems primarily from body chemistry. However,your comments on pressure are also pertinent. I do tend to use too much finger pressure. I am in the process of altering that and I'll see if that makes a difference.

By the way, had the same problem with Dominants but not quite as severe. The comment about first position D on the A also resonates. I am currently training to be a Suzuki teacher and in addition to my regular orchestral and chamber playing, I am playing an awful lot in 1st position as I memorize the Suzuki literature(Books 1 throuh 4). If all else fails, I'll become a quasi-vegetarian or simply bite the bullet and increase my string budget.

Thanks again to all.

May 10, 2008 at 09:42 PM · Reducing finger pressure is a good ide in any case :-) It helps to develop a good technique a lot...

May 10, 2008 at 10:48 PM · There are a number of things that can cause this. Bad strings (unlikely), extra wear caused by too much pressure, extra-rough calluses or fingernails too long. Also, there are uneven string tension and corosion from body chemistry. A look at your strings with a magnifying glass should tell you if you're getting extra corrosion in that area. If that is the case you are stuck with wiping down your strings frequently. Try using a dry lubricant in the string grooves; especially at the nut. This is a very stressed area when using the pegs to tune. If the string doesn't slide smoothly tension will be greater on the peghead side of the nut, leading to unwinding. You say you've had it checked out but it can't hurt to try-can only help. Good luck.