American wood vs. European wood

November 27, 2006 at 05:59 AM · There's no way to identify a board as red spruce. A purchaser just has to take the word of the supplier. The luthier you showed it to is full of crap. He either wants to sell you a violin or just cause trouble.

November 27, 2006 at 10:34 AM · Sarah,

Are you asking about long-term value (investment) or sound quality? Two separate issues, unfortunately.

As to the former, perhaps your friend is correct, but when is the last time you looked at a good violin, and asked what kind of wood it was made from? Never, right? So how can it affect the long-term value?

I have no knowledge of various maples. However, I know VERY well the difference between German & Red (AKA Adirondack, sometimes AKA Appalacian) spruce, at least as it sounds in steel-string guitars. GIven equal grain, age, and dryness, German spruce is very refined, reserved, and with a lot of HF shimmer. It speaks easily, but compresses when pushed hard.

Adirondack spruce is much more rowdy. It has very little compression and so explodes nicely when you really lay into the guitar. German is nice for fingerpicking (as is Engleman) while red spruce (and to a lesser extent, Sitka) are far superior for hard strumming.

I have no idea how that equates to a violin, but I am one THOUSAND percent sure as regards guitars.

Of course, the specific selection of a board (for resonance, tap-tone, etc) is likely more important than the sub-species it belongs to.

November 27, 2006 at 10:32 AM · Jim & I posted at the same time, so I am responding to his post now.

Jim,

I have spent literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours picking, planing, and listening to spruce.

While it's true that it's sometimes hard to tell Red Spruce from Sitka, there is no mistaking it with a good piece of German. The grain, and usually the color, are slightly different.

Also, MOST red spruce has tell-tale patterns & color that no other species has. (red streaks, and a unique sugaring pattern, among other things) When that coloring or figure is present, you know absolutely that it's red spruce. It can actually be kind of ugly.

EDIT-

I am speaking of differentiating between raw boards. Once there is finish on the top, differences in Spruce species would be MUCH harder to differentiate, so Jim may have a point.

November 27, 2006 at 06:35 AM · Nobody can tell the difference by sound either:)

November 27, 2006 at 10:14 AM · I don't think American wood is anything to be afraid of. Where the different characteristics of the wood affect the sound, this can largely be compensated for with changes to the thicknesses, which is something most violin makers do anyway to deal with varying qualities from one piece of wood to the next.

With no compensation, it could sound quite different though.

As far as future investment value, I believe this will depend more on exposure and successful promotion (and to some extent sound) than on the use of American or European wood.

http://www.burgessviolins.com

November 27, 2006 at 11:01 PM · I would think it would be hard to affect value over the long run simply due to knowledge/lack of knowledge of the woods origin. At shows such as the recent VSA for example, many European wood suppliers were there selling European wood to many different American makers. Since labels don't list country of origin of the wood used. identifying which wood is used just based on the basis of the country that the maker resides in would be impossible. From a sound/current pricing standpoint, many makers use American wood, and with proper curing, they get very good results. I do know that I currently carry a line of violins that is available with either European wood or Chinese wood, and while there is a cost difference, the sound is significantly better with the European wood. I have seen, heard, or played instruments from a variety of top American makers and don't notice that strong of a tone difference between using American wood or European wood. I am sure that I could find numerous examples of both origins of wood that produce superior sound as well as examples that produce inferior sound. Sometimes it's not the wood.

November 27, 2006 at 04:48 PM · Hey guys

Although it is slightly different, many banjo's in particular but not exclusivley are made from american walnut which is a very high quality tone wood. Also high quality skateboards are made of canadian maple.

I think it is unfair to say that just because a piece of wood comes from america it will be a poor wood.

Good discussion topic though!

November 27, 2006 at 08:18 PM · Interesting discussion. How about Asian wood? I know for a fact that any Chinese made violins made of Asian wood (Himalayan?) would certainly cost less than those made of European wood. Is Asian wood also inferior to European wood or does the same concept discussed here apply?

November 27, 2006 at 11:14 PM · I've made a few violins with red spruce & red maple. They all turned out nicely. I rather like red spruce for a violin. Doesn't work exactly like the other woods, at least for me. But I think it is my favorite.

November 27, 2006 at 11:48 PM · I would answer this way. If the maker is using a particular wood because that is his/her choice and is able to bring out a particular tone, or other important aspects of a violin using that type of wood then the value depends only on the success of the maker.

I just sold a cello made by Hans Nebel I from 1926. The value of this cello was highly dependent on the cello's wood. If it was made with american maple then the value was less. That is because over time it was determined that the cellos made with euro maple were superior by this maker. Mr Nebel did use some american maple for a period