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Re-graduating violins, a blessing or a curse?

Edited: November 8, 2025, 9:08 AM · I’ve been watching loads of YouTube videos about re-graduated fiddles, by a luthier in our area. This is done to gain the maximum volume. The top is removed, and thinned to almost ridiculous levels. Sometimes, wood is even shaved from the inner ribs, and back. The fiddles are called “killer”, or “cannons”., or “tone monsters”. Supposedly, several popular fiddle players, even orchestral players, have purchased them.
However, a wooden instrument expert told me that is very risky. The violins are loud, project well, FOR A WHILE then, because there is no longer a large number of intact cells, they fail, and become wall decorations. Plus, they are no longer “made” by the original maker, the label might as well be removed.
Does anyone have any experience with this, or know something I’m not hearing? I’ve never owned one of these altered instruments. But I’m curious.

Replies (12)

November 8, 2025, 9:59 AM · I'm interested to know too - David Burgess?
November 8, 2025, 10:43 AM · There is an old rule that if something sounds too good to be true, it's probably not true.

I have a 7/8 birds-eye violin that was described by Dalton Potter as "way too heavy" and he explained that the top could be regraded to improve the sound, but that he didn't think the violin was worth it. I then found a luthier in Richmond who was working for Jane Kapeller, and this luthier (I don't remember his name) said he could regrade the top and clean the violin for some ridiculously low price like $400. I decided to take the risk. In the end, the violin did sound better but it didn't become a great violin. I don't have any regrets about it.

November 8, 2025, 11:16 AM · Regraduation has been a practice in violin work for centuries. It began because players found some violins very difficult to play and luthiers knew that they could make them speak more easily and efficiently if they reworked the plates. Countless violins received this treatment over time, even including some of those made by the world’s most treasured makers.

For some luthiers it has become a specialty. My great-great-grandfather advertised revoicing of instruments as one of his areas of expertise. In his day (and still to this day in many cases) commercial instruments were made with very thick plates that weren’t given much care or thought on the inside. Because they sounded rather poor to players, the values stayed at a negligible point for at least a century, which made it easy for a skilled luthier to buy them in quantity for very little and then turn them into instruments that were astonishingly better and then sell them at a reasonable price that allowed the luthier to make a modest profit while giving the player a good deal as well. Now that prices for old factory violins are rising dramatically, that market has changed.

When I worked at The Violin House of Weaver, my specialty was regraduation and installation of new bassbars in good or fine old instruments and sometimes in new ones as well. Over the years I worked on thousands of instruments. I also did this work in addition to setup, repair, and restoration for a few other shops as well before establishing my own business.

For a violin shop, instruments that sit on the shelves and collect dust for years can be a major money sink. If they can’t be set up to sound good enough to sell, they either have to be dumped at auctions or wholesaled to dealers at a loss. Or they can be revoiced to improve their chances in the showroom.

Is it dangerous operation? Yes. Doing so involves the removal of original material and poor workmanship can ruin the instrument entirely. If, for example, a top is thinned too much, the instrument may be lively and exciting under the ear at first, but it will be weak structurally, so in time it will lose its initial appealing qualities and deteriorate to the point that it’s worse than it was originally. The luthier who does this work needs to understand wood very well and have a nuanced understanding of violin construction and sound.

Is there any way to reverse regraduation? Yes and no. You can’t put the old wood back once it’s gone, but you can put in large patches of new wood to return the instrument to its original dimensions. I remember seeing a presentation of a priceless instrument where wood was put in to cover almost all of the inside of the top to undo regraduation. The owner of the shop wanted a token amount of original wood to be visible, so the restorer left one small patch of the original wood exposed but covered everything else. Will a violin sound the same after this kind of work? Quite likely it won’t. Patching will improve structure and will hopefully improve sound as well, but it’s not something that can be predicted very well. Restorations are often carried out between owners because the tonal results are hard to predict. As Heraclitus reminds us, “A man cannot step into the same river twice, because it is not the same river and he is not the same man.”

Edited: November 8, 2025, 11:47 AM · It was done in the 19th century to 'improve' older violins which traditionally were quieter than today's. It would be a shame to do on something 18th century or older today but on anything poorly graduated from the 19th or 20th century, and done by an expert, it's fine. You are at risk of losing its soul though.
November 8, 2025, 12:29 PM · So, removing wood is traditional and fine, but removing varnish is forbidden :-).
November 8, 2025, 1:45 PM · Thinner plates = more efficient conversion of energy into sound. In other words, louder and easier response. The bad news is, thin violins don't sound good. And they don't have a dynamic range. They get to 100% immediately and then bottom out.
The most common candidates for regrads are factory instruments, particularly Chinese, which are left thick hot off the CNC and aren't graduated properly to shorten the manufacturing time.
November 8, 2025, 1:47 PM · I think it can be a way to add value to an older instrument with good materials but lackluster sound. My local luthier isn’t aiming for “loud” fiddles but rather optimal performance. She takes instruments with an interesting story and makes them sonically competitive with newer Chinese bench models.
Edited: November 8, 2025, 2:01 PM · Removing varnish is forbidden because you can see it. A regraduation can be done so that only those who know the original dimensions for the maker can tell it happened.

It’s also my belief that the statement “original in all its principal parts” on a certificate is not intended to include the inside of the violin; this is worded as such precisely so that shops have the latitude to make adjustments like regraduation in order to sell violins. There are precious few del Gesu instruments with original graduations for reference because they were regraduated to make them easier to play. Most of the great violins that everyone knows and loves are substantially different than they were when they left the workbench (not even getting into the conversion to mortised neck). If no one was allowed to make any changes, the number of good-sounding violins would be dramatically lower and some would just never sell. I don’t think any of the great makers expected their violins to have such a long lifespan and they themselves were quite willing to make changes to existing instruments—in those days it was common to throw a plate away if it was cracked and simply make a new one. The reverence for the original materials has only grown over time since it was realized just how well violins could survive if kept carefully and with the development of advanced repair and restoration technique.

As stated above, wood can be replaced with different wood to preserve structure. Varnish is much harder to replicate. That being said, there are a number of precious violins out there that have flown under the radar with different varnishes if they were done well enough. One of the reasons that attributions or certificates change over time is that experts discover these things.

November 8, 2025, 2:00 PM · Excellent explanation Rich: I had no idea!
Edited: November 8, 2025, 4:07 PM · These days, most luthiers will refuse to regraduate a bench-made violin that is the original work of an individual violin maker because it is unethical and disrespectful to the maker. This is as it should be. I have read of at least one maker who wrote "Do Not Regraduate" underneath the tops of his violins as a message to future luthiers.

Violins by individual makers should be considered as creative works of art or at least works of high craftsmanship. They should not be defiled because one person does not like the sound any more than a painting should be modified because someone doesn't like the artist’s colors. If an individual or dealer does not like the tone of a violin and they can’t fix it by set-up or adjustments, then they should pass it on. Chances are that there is somebody who will like it.

And there is no guarantee that regraduation will improve the tone, anyway. It can just as easily make things worse and it is irreversible.

The old mass-produced 20th C. German violins were hurriedly assembled from parts made by individuals who knew nothing about how to make an entire violin. They were paid by the piece and did not care about what an instrument ultimately sounded like. These mass-produced violins are not individual creative works, and many can be improved by regraduation and thinning the ribs. So nothing is really wrong with that as long as the person knows what they are doing.

And I personally dislike the term "re-voicing." It’s regraduation.

November 8, 2025, 2:49 PM · I know one maker who does this on the side, with Chinese factory violins. Because they are in the white, he doesn't have to open them up to change thickness. And they have no individual names attached, although he has sometimes recognized the work of one of that place's best employees.
November 8, 2025, 5:20 PM · Stephen - do the Chinese factories always leave the plates too thick?

Like so much violin lore, re-graduation seems to be more like superstition than science. I'd be interested to learn exactly what parts of the plate are thinned and whether this is determined by empirical observation or adherence to doctrine. Has anyone published an "optimal" map of plate thickness, and explained how this was arrived at?


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