New Anne-Sophie Mutter Korngold / Tchaikovsky
Has anyone acquired this recording yet?
http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/catalog/popup.htms?PRODUCT_NR=4745152&SIZE=300&COMP_ID=KORER&COLORS=
October 2004 release.
I'd be curious as to your opinion of this specific recording. I'm thinking of getting it, but I've currently blown my CD budget on Hilary's Elgar CD and James Ehnes's upcoming Weiniawski CD.
Hopefully by the time I can afford it in late November or early December there might be some opinions on it.
Replies (46)
GOD, please help me:I HAVEN'T SLEPT SINCE I LISTENED IT FOR THE FIRST TIME. It's simply great: the best.
TCHAIKOVSKY 3th tempo and the finale of the 1st are played so fast and with so much character that will pierce you through like a TGV at his maximum speed.
I must admit that at 5'42'' of the fist tempo come little intonation problems (for the first time!!!), but you can clearly hear that is a string problem. After all is a LIVE recording.
The 2nd tempo is great too, with her non-vibrato and pianissimo at the begin, and a crescendo that brings new power and interest for the piece at every bar, even if the theme is repeated plenty of times.
KORNGOLD is TERRIFIC: it really scared me, expecially the last tempo.
I think this recording will be a great stone in the history of violin: after it (i'm sorry to say it) the previous recording of both concerts (and that's expecially true for the korngold concerto) appears very very little and small.
I've heard a million different tchaikovskys and heifetz, shaham and perlman korngold's and I can state with no problem that there's no competition: MUTTER wins 10 to 0.
Before this cd I could not even imagine that so much ENERGY, POWER, STRENGTH and FIERY CHARACTER would be held by only one person.
I can bet my.....violin that such an incredible perfection won't let you sleep for many many night! ;)
Please DO COMPARE, COMPARE AND COMPARE....and tell me...
p.s.: sorry for any grammar mistake, i'm italian so my english could be so and so...:)
I don't like it. Simply bad taste. The Korngold sways back and forth with so many crescendos and diminuendos that I feel seasick after the first 2 minutes (I prefer Shaham's recording much more to this). The 3rd movement of Tchaik is extremely fast, but to me misses the point. I picture a bunch of drunk russians dancing around with this movement, but no one in Mutter's recording could dance around that fast...especially drunk!
She loves to press as hard as she can when she plays on the G-String...so much so that it doesn't even sound like a violin, rather a Mitre Saw! I haven't heard the 1st two movements of Tchaikovsky, I won't assume they're as bad as the Korngold or the 3rd movement (I pray they're not).
If you've hated Mutter's Beethoven Sonatas, you'll definately hate this one as well.
then i hate it.
Nice to see some feedback. I was actually discussing whether I should buy this with my friend yesterday. She was about as hesitant as I was. If I did get it, it would be out of curiosity. It sounds like I will love it or dislike it intensely.
Although Marty comments that Anne-Sophie Mutter's treatment of the Beethoven Sonatas stands as a benchmark "stylistic" comparison, I'm not sure that is entirely fair in this instance. After all, Korngold is very far removed from Beethoven, and the way Anne-Sophie treats Beethoven is arguably a valid approach to Korngold, given all the lushness, warmth and romance inherent in Korngold's composition.
Nowadays I also prefer to see violinists who have enough guts to press into their instrument on ocassion rather than pussyfoot around for fear of breaking something!
my friend sent me the recording with tchaikovsky/korngold. im so sorry but i think its just awful. especially the tchaikovsky. i didnt like the korngold but i dont know it as well as the tchaikovsky to fully judge it
It's all about personal preferences. For me this would be one of the great recordings of both pieces, and it's again personal opinion to say what "good taste" is, we don't want all sound like Hilary Hahn after all. Mutter's music is just as she descbrided herslef: " I am an artist of extremes; you either love it or hate it, but I don't think music should ever left people untouched.".
I can only judge from the soundclips at amazon, but to my ear Mutter's sound has too many noise, I guess she presses her bow too hard or something. In the beginning of the 3rd Korngold movement it was a bit difficult for me to make out the exact pitches she's playing because the sound scratches so much. I heard Hilary play it and everything sounded crystal clear. Now I don't think that crystal clear sound is exactly right for Korngold, so my preferred recording to date is Shaham's, he brings the right overflowing amount of emotion in there while still sounding beautiful.
Hasn't she already recorded the Tchaikovsky before?
im seasick too
:(
except for the picture that is
;)
yep she did record the tchaik before
" I am an artist of extremes; you either love it or hate it, but I don't think music should ever left people untouched."
Well, that sentence from the liner notes pretty much sums up what has gone wrong with her in her most recent recordings: of course people should be touched by music, but she seems to think that can only be achieved by doing something extreme with just about every note she plays.
Either there's a weird vibrato or a weird absence of it, or notes held either too long or too short, no two consective notes sound the same (wouldn't that be boring?), and there's an almost consistently weird phrasing, in short: there's no NATURAL playing anymore...What I totally miss is the 'flow of the music' and letting the music speak for itself.
Need I say it: I hate it......
I have heard only a small part of the Korngold of this recording for reasons I'll mention below - it was playing on the radio - but I haven't (and won't) listen to this whole recording since I am sure it is abysmal. I just can't stand anything Mutter does. She hasn't got the modesty (or sensitivity) to "play the music" and avoid trampling all over the composer's indications - dynamics, tempo, etc. It's a real pity because she owns two of the finest violins (Strads) and posesses a technique that is right up there. She massacres everything she plays. Her Beethoven stinks. I once tuned in to the radio in the car with my wife (a professional 'cellist) in the middle of what I have to describe as the most crass playing of the Brahms concerto - we looked at each other and we both just said one word to each other simultaneously "Mutter" and switched to another channel.
I am a personal friend of Leonidas Kavakos - if you want to hear a beautiful, musical performance of the work that reflects the composer's (Korngold's) intentions, listen to this. Korngold was very specific about his dynamics, tempos, etc. - Leonidas plays this on a DVD all about Korngold, conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas, so you can watch too. Fine, fine performance - and I am usually very critical, as you can see.
I have only one CD of Mutter in my collection - although I don't want it, I won't give it away because I don't want to ruin another impressionable listener's understanding of what a musical violin performance should be.
IMO that's an awful statement - Mutter was a fabulous violinist in the Karajan days - I'm a big fan on hers - and I have the DG recordings of Mendelssohn, Bruch, Brahms, Mozart and Beethoven with her under Karajan. She plays truely beautifully! OK her post Karajan (sweater) days may not live up to her younger recordings but she's still very individual, and IMO gets a very nice tone - although the excessive rubato creates a detriment to her playing. Though you can't just bag her out so much, it's infair - I think her Karajan days provide an excellent example to young players on how to play the great concerti. How many people here can admit to being up to par with her in her Karajan days...
Nothing is better than Heifetz's Korngold Concerto recording. The last movement amazes me.
Adam - I thought this is a discussion of the new Korngold and Tchaikovsky recording? Anyhow - to answer you about her early recordings, there are and were hundreds of violinists who could and can play as well as and better than Mutter in her Karajan days - just find some recordings and listen. Karajan had an interesting relationship with her. Are you seriously challenging the primacy of Oistrakh, Heifetz, Szering, Milstein, Szigeti, Kogan, Stern, earlier Menuhin, etc., etc. in those classical concerti and putting ASM up there with them?? Just listen to Joseph Suk's earlier playing. For Beethoven listen to Szymon Goldberg. And for female performers, what about players like Ginette Neveu? Erica Morini? I suggest you do some more comparative listening before holding her up to them.
Tony,
I think your last post there reads a little disrespectfully to my mind, in the sense that you seem to be intimating Adam's love of ASMs earlier playing is somehow "in error" and that you are able to provide him guidance as to his perceived error of judgement. As in most things violinistically related, the reasons we like our favourite players are most often subjective, not objective. If it were objective, we would all like the same players and there wouldn't be any point having more than a handful of soloists around to satisfy concert bookings rather than the wide variety of individual personalities that serve to mould the broad tapestry of contemporary performance as we do now.
I didn't notice that Adam - in the post you seem to refer to - actually say that Mutter (in her "sweater" days) was an Oistrakh, Milstein or Heifetz killer. For all I know he might like those performances as well, but he is just as entitled to praise early Mutter performances as anyone here can praise any performer they like.
I think it is fine to tell someone that they should take the opportunity to hear a different performance than the one they mentioned - and to outline the reasons why. I just think it goes a bit far when someone also says (or strongly intimates) that someone else's choice is actually inferior and that their choice is, on the other hand, a somehow "superior" and more "educated" choice. Each to their own.
Incidentally Tony, I did not give you the demerit point. I prefered to explain this one out.
The thing is I have! I've got Heifetz, Oistrakh, Kogan, Gitlis, Menuhin, Szeryng, Neveu, Perlman etc recordings, and I consider Mutters early days amazing. She never made a mistake, got a ravishing tone, and as Karajan once said "Is the biggest prodigy since the young Menuhin" or something to that manner...
Each player has their good points and bad points - even Heifetz...
You are right on both the above accounts Adam. And I was pretty sure you would have heard all the others. Because ASM did / does play with a magnificent technique then liking her or not is completely subjective. I mean, her technique is still flawless today as well, even better than it ever was in my view.
I grew up as a student listening to her "sweater" recordings and I like them as much as any interpretation I have ever heard. I had them all on cassette and wore out both the cassettes and the walkman listening to them over and over! To me she was THE role model along with Shlomo Mintz. I actually think her first recording of the Mozart # 3 and # 5 to be the best I have ever heard of those concertos. And she was only 14 when she made it!! Absolutely astonishing beyond words.
Adam Heifetz does not have bad points.
Nate - you're right about Heifetz - I know you are a scholar of top violinists from the past from an early age. And by the way congrats on your recital in Pittsburgh the other day - I'm sure it was great!!
Tony F
I don't see why anyone would in good faith give my post a demerit point - what was so offensive or insulting about it? It is a valid critique of a recording and a player - isn't this what this Board is all about? My point to Adam was not to demonstrate superior knowledge, but that there are people out there who think Anne-Sophie Mutter's playing is not truly comparable to the great players I mentioned.
So would whoever wants to remove my post because they don't like my views explain why they would award it a demerit? As implied by Jonathan Parle whatever you think of ASM the lack of explanation is very insulting as far as I'm concerned.
Hey Tony ,
Thanks :) Great to see you on here! I remember I met you and your wife on several occasions including at the Kavakos concert in NYC a couple of years ago. Phillip is such a special guy and what a great maker he is I might add! I'm using one of his new Del Gesu models now. I highly recommend him to anyone on here for that matter if you are around the Pittsburgh area.
I completely agree with you on Mutter. Her recent Beethoven concerto recording is really out there. I would have to say the same thing about her vibratoless Sibelius rendition. I can't agree with any of them for that matter at all. The tempo changes in the last movement of the Beethoven are erratic. Her gypsy slides in the Beethoven sonatas are of the poorest taste. At times she uses no vibrato and also goes to the other extreme of using a very wide non centered vibrato which as we all well know is not in tune. I don't even think technically she's that secure compared to real professionals like Mr. Kavakos , Bell, Yuval Yaron, Erick Friedman and forget about ever comparing her to Heifetz.
Nate
Maybe ASM disliked those works as much as Glenn Gould disliked Mozart?
Yes Heifetz does have some bad points. The main one being his very dry sound in the 1950+ days (before that recording faults made it sound sweet with schoom). IMO his Spohr Concerto 8 recording is technically immaculate but I just don't like his sound - so dry - almost screechy like. I've shown this recording to numerous other violinists I know and they also commented on his dry sound - I prefer Kreisler's warm sound over Heifetz's 1950+ sound anytime...but who knows how Kreisler would have sounded in the 1950+???
Mutter tramples over composers indications? I'm sure Heifetz's speed preferences for the Mendelssohn Concerto 3rd mvt weren't Mendelssohn's indications. Hmmmm....
Heifetz' bad points haha tell me another one.
PS I just read your post Adam - Happy new year! Why dont you write a politically correct message for that, the last one was great. I'm sure that if Heifetz had recorded today, it would sound anything but dry. Blame the tonmeister!
Adam - Mendelssohn's indication for the third movement is "Allegro Molto Vivace". Although that is not 100% a speed indication (as you know the Italian means "Fast and very lively), Heifetz had some pretty impressive authority to draw on for his tempo - as a student of Auer who was born in 1845, 2 years before Mendelssohn died and 1 year after the concerto was written, Auer must have heard the concerto played many times by players who "took it from the horse's mouth" - in fact Joseph Joachim, Auer's teacher, was the 3rd player to perform it for Mendelssohn at the age of 14, i.e. while Mendelssohn was still alive, and Auer must have heard Ferdinand David play it too, so Heifetz was only 2 generations removed from the composer's hearing of his piece, i.e., virtually a performing "grandson" of the original performers. That adds some weight to his interpretation of the speed marking.
Also, Heifetz had an incredible and infallible sense of tempo - it was his most unbending quality. If you watch his masterclass videos, you see how that is one of the most important points he stresses - watch his coaching of Erick Friedman in the Brahms Concerto for example. Was he wrong to be so insistent on careful attention to consistency in tempi? And do you believe his fast tempo in the 3rd movement of the Mendelssohn was just to "show off"? Heifetz didn't need to "show off" - he held the deepest convictions as to what he did on the violin, and everything was done to serve the composer.
Now, I can accept that the last movement of the Mendelssohn doesn't have to be played at Heifetz's tempo, but it certainly should be played evenly and that is what Heifetz does with it, as with everything else. His spectacular accuracy wasn't just in his playing notes in tune, but in the sense of rhythm, and pulse. He is within the bounds of the composer's intentions. Once you step outside of the composer's markings by playing loud where "soft" is marked, or fast where "slow" is marked, or you bend a note out of tune without justification, you are going beyond interpretation and into self-indulgence. People criticize Heifetz's Bach - but it's either because they don't like his style, feeling it is too romantic, not because anyone has more authority as to how the works should be played (Bach didn't fill his manuscripts with interpretative markings and violins and bows were different then in any case) - and even here, one has to admit that his sense of tempi beats most other violinists hands down.
How does this all fit with Mutter's playing of the Tchaikovsky and the Korngold? Well, you compared Mutter with Heifetz and tried to put them on a level. I feel there is no comparison, from a musical standpoint, and many people agree with me.
No, all I'm saying is that its not dair to bag out Mutter that much. OK she indulges in tempo a lot now (personally I don't like it that much either) but the fact is her early days were excellent. I never tried to compare her to Heifetz or Oistrakh or what have you. I was purely stating that I like her early recordings and it's not fair to bag her out so much because she accompalished a lot and is a famous violinist after all...I never said she was better than Heifetz for the simple reason that IMO she isn't...I'm just defending her name from being totally bagged out - her music making 'not being worthy of being show to young inpressionable violinists' - that IMO that is false.
and remember...As an elderly man Heifetz heard a recording of himself (Ayke Agnus : Heifetz as I knew him) and he said at the end of the radio broadcast "Bah! Too fast!" - I think it was Tchaikovsky or Mendelssohn - I dont quite remember...
Heifetz's playing reminds me of Horowitz's piano playing in the sense that it draws a lot of attention to itself. Whether everything else is superficially 'correct', I view this particular aspect as detrimental to the music.
Carl.
I try to make it policy to refrain from commenting about moderator's actions, and so far I never have. But I really have to wonder what the heck Adam has done to deserve the two demerits that I am currently seeing. He has not in any way personally attacked any other members. His posts were well constructed and to my point of view were not offensive or explicit. He has expressed an opinion that is contrary to other posters on this thread. I don't necessarily agree with all he says, but then again I don't necessarily agree with his dissenters either. But that does not give me or anyone else the right to pass subjective judgement by promoting or demeriting these posts. In expressing his contrary opinion, he has done nothing whatsoever in those two posts to belittle or personally attack the other members who have a different opinion. In fact he does not even mention them. If we went moderating posts every single time there is a difference of opinion, this whole place will be littered with so many stars and crosses that it will be impossible to sift through it with any sort of objectivity. Furthermore, Adam even went to the trouble to explain why he thinks the way he does - in quite reasonable detail too. In these sorts of circumstances, moderation, if required, should pertain to the manner in which someone expresses their opinion, not whether it meets some sort of community standard in terms of popularity or not.
Again I am beginnning to question the worth of this new moderating system, as my early reservations about the system being used on ocassion to favourably highlight one person or group's opinions over another is starting to seemingly come true.
Blatant misuse of the moderation system IMO - the fact is I won't let unfair moderations stop me from expressing my opinion and explaining the reasons behind it. I have not violated any laws on violinist.com - I didn't spam, abuse, swear or anything else...I merely expressed my views...
Good on you, Adam! I enjoy your posts very much, as I do everybody's, no matter what their opinions are. Everyone has something worthwhile to say here.
I agree with that - I also got a demerit from someone for merely expressing my views yesterday - I think someone is not using the demerits the way they were intended when the system was set up (as far as my reading of the rules goes). Clearly, this whole system of reader moderation is flawed.
people tend to do that a lot, its sad.
Today a friend lent me the Tchai - Korngold CD he bought a couple of days ago - Mutter's playing really has changed a lot since the death of Karajan - I agree with people stating that the rubato makes them seasick - for it did the same to me...I think I'll stick to her sweater day recordings...
Thanks for that summary Adam. I think you have saved me $30. I was a bit circumspect about it, but it seems her playing in this new CD is pretty much like her playing has been for the last 6 or 7 years.
I guess we can be thankful for reissues. I treasure my Mozart CD and will probably get a few other of the sweater recordings now.
Her intonation in the Tchaikovsky is very doggy at times...I'd go with the Karajan Tchaikovsky version she made - even if the tempo Karajan set is a bit slow - at least there her intonation is 100%
I'm glad you(Adam) now understand why I react so strongly to ASM's recordings. Unfortunately there are many fine, musical violinists out there who should have an opportunity to record with a major symphony works like the Korngold and would not make you seasick, but the money is behind ASM.
Yep, I can accept and understand why you dislike her Post Karajan day recordings such as this new one, but I still very much like her playing with Karajan. You have a very valid and strong point though - at the moment - the way she's attacking these works makes one fustrated that other very talented musicians who could and can probably play with a better style do not get to record these works with orchestras - she made her name...
Well, I got this recording for Christmas (thanks to this thread for interesting me...anytime I see a version of the Tchaik that some like and someone hates for anything other than predictability, I am interested), and I love it, at least the Tchaik 1st mvmt.
I haven't listened to the second two enough yet to know what I think, but I love her read of the 1st mvmt of the Tchaik. (The Korngold I don't know well enough to have an educated opinion.) I find ASM's somewhat novel uses of phrasing and color to fit to a T the aspects of the 1mvmt/Tchaik that I previously thought were under-rendered in recent versions.
For point of reference, my other two favorite versions of this movement are Elman and Oistrakh, so I obviously have a preference for somewhat anachronistic playing (Elman). Not saying that ASM's version is in any way similar to those two, mind.
*begin flamebait*
While we do have some ability to guess what sort of sound Tchaik had in mind when he wrote it, as he wrote for Auer and we know what Auer sounded like (a fair bit like Heifitz IMHO), Tchaik wrote in an age when every player was expected to be an individual to a degree that would never be attempted today (probably more so even than ASM...imagine Joachim, Sarasate, Kreisler, Ysaye, and Auer playing the same piece), and while I certainly appreciate period practice (even Romantic period), I also appreciate playing where the player seems to have something different to say.
*end flamebait*
As the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I myself got my copy yesterday and was blown away by the emotions and new ideas she puts in these concertos, specially the Korngold. I myself think that she is past the "correctness" of the performance since that she did with Karajan (or maybe she was the "alter violinist ego" for Karajan to express his ideas), and since technical virtuosity is no longer an issue for her, is free to explore like the impressionists or Picasso did.
In my opinion, these were some of the most electrifying, intense, gut wrenching performances of these concertos. Her virtuosity in these pieces, just cuts at you like a bulldozer, she doesn't have to try anymore. I think both Korngold, and Tchaikovsky, wanted the violinist to create a very dreamy atmosphere in the opening phrases of the first movements, and she definetly did this. In the Tchaikovsky I noticed various simarlarities, to Kogan's bold, bravura, recording, they both use very intense vibrato on the g and e strings. The Korngold in my opinion, was the greatest since Heifetz's recording.
Mutter's views have changed since the death of Karajan, but not drastically. If you loved her music in the past, you should not really have a problem understanding her playing now. The main thing that I think she discovered since Karajan's death was that she is a virtuoso, and she can play as personal, as did Heifetz, Elman, Menuhin, and the other "great personalities" of the past. Many violinists today play some of these pieces like the Tchaikovsky way to mechanically, and try to result to moving around, and making faces, to cover up for there lack of innate musicallity. Mutter is one of the very few artists of today who is truly personal and honest about music making in my opinion.
greetings mutter fans
...apparently her new cd is out
One thing I like about her is when she records new material, she is playing the world premere recording of Henri Dutilleux’s nocturne "Sur le même accord" along with bartok 2 and stravinsky. I always liked her old recording of the bartok 2, not my favorite but I liked it.
cheers
scott
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October 7, 2004 at 11:08 PM · Sigh...I want it so badly,but it hasn't been released in the states yet :(.