Violin Tuning By Ear
Hello all, I am new to the forum. I was wondering does anyone have any tips to share on tuning the violin. My instructor tunes the A string first then plays the A string with the D and tunes the D by ear, the does the same with the other strings. She can tune so fast. Any thoughts on this would help immensely. Thanks...
Replies (28)
I train my students to tune their own instruments over the first months of learning: First I tune them in pizz pairs to give them an approximate guide, and play 'higher/lower' by comparing each string to the relevant notes on the piano. Once they've got the basic sound of the fifth interval in their heads, we start tuning with the bow: I detune their violins, then bring each pair into the perfect fifth, first letting them know when a pair is in tune, then encouraging them to spot when the fifth comes 'into focus' themselves. Once the aural skills are there, it may still take a while to learn the physical action of simultaneously playing and tuning, but it does come over time. Ask your teacher to spend the first few minutes of each lesson helping you with this: it may take up time now, but you'll certainly make it up later on when you can do it yourself.
Really easy for this one. Memorize your 440hz A. Just memorize the pitch, so you don't need a tuner. Then you obviously tune in intervals for D,G, then E. (Maybe it's easy cause I have perfect pitch.) OH well, my two cents.
-Matt
Matt, it is easy because you have perfect pitch!
Greetings,
yes, that was closer to 1 cent than 2...
Cheers,
Buri
when you tune your strings together, if you listen carefully, you will hear a slight beating. This is caused by the harmonics of the notes clashing. It's difficult to go into it in full length (it took my harmony and aural classes at uni 2 or 3 weeks to get it), but basically each note produces a sound wave. When two notes play together there are two sound waves that are playing at different frequencies (Called Hertz or Htz). If you play two notes that are in perfect unison, they will have the same frequency, and hence will have no clashes. If you play a note that is an octave higher, it halves the frequency (ie, if you play an open string, then split the string in half it should play the octave). This gives you a ratio of 2 waves in the time of 1, or 2:1. There will be some clashes in this chord.
If you play the third of the string, you will get the perfect 5th. this is playing 3:2 and also 3:1. therefore there are more clashes in this note than in a perfect octave. The harmonics of C therefore are as follows: C0, C1 (octave higher) G1, C2, E2, G2, Bb2, C3 (first 8 harmonics). If you can understand and explain this (not by what i have told you here though, I might put a page up on my site later though), then you can understand why something is in tune or not.
How does this relate to the violin? When you are tuning the strings, they are tuned in perfect 5ths. However if you do not have them in perfect 5ths, the notes will clash, and you will hear a beating in the sounds. Listen carefully and you'll hear it. If you have an electronic tuner, tune both notes perfectly with that, then tune one down and play it, then tune it sharp and flat to hear what happens with the beatings. Your aim should be to get them as close together as possible.
Of course, when you're in an orchestra it is difficult to hear the beating because it is rather soft, however it would take too long for each player to tune seperately. Therefore you use the harmonics of the perfect unison to check the tuning. On each string there is a harmonic that is the same as on the string above it. On the A string it is the E over the 1st position E, and the E an octave above. This is the same on other strings (same position, different notes).
I see most violinists playing the lower note with the second finger, and the top note with the fourth finger, however it is possible to play it in the one position (if you have large hands (and you know what they say about large hands... big gloves)).
WEll, that was longer than I had anticipated. Hope it helps (hope i've got it all right as well.
Ben
having to memorize a pitch (440) means matt doesnt have perfect pitch - anyone can memmorize pitches...
I think if I can tell you what note a car is humming along at, or what note a phone rings to, I'm pretty sure I have perfect pitch.
Not true, Dan. I've been playing for over twenty years and still can't memorise a concert A. It's just one of those things. And anyway, this thread is about tuning the strings relatively in fifths, not adhering to A=440. What will Matt do when the conductor decides to go for A=415? Recognising a perfect fifth is like seeing a picture come into focus, and that takes experience and practice.
Greetings,
pitch memory is also distorted by muscular tension affewcvtion the ear and listenign to bloddy awful modern music...
Cheers,
Buri
i've found i've memorized the a on my violin, but on a piano its sort of hit and miss, i get it about half the time.
Thanks so much. It is starting to make sense. I appreciate all of the responses.
my teacher has perfect pitch - no awkward tunings or pieces have ever created any obsticles. 450hz would be just as easy as 440hz...
i can name the pitch of an air conditioning machine and i know all of the intervals in any key naturally...though i dont have "perfect pitch" but rather a great sense of relative pitch
Greetings,
Dan, one day you and I shoudl play some Xenakis togethr. Then you can show me a Mozart sonata and after that a few beers would not go amiss,
Cheers,
Buri
haha i dont think id give justice to the sonata...unless we do the beer first !
I've been tuning by the ear lately, so I decided to challenge myself against the electronic tuner a few times. About 90% of the time, I seem to be exactly in tune.
I am finding that it almost feels like cheating because my violin sings very differently if it is not in tuner. When I hit the exactly right spot, the violin sounds and feels like it's singing at top of its voice.
Basically my violin seem to be able to tell me if I am in tune or not, even when I am doing scales.
If strings are tuned in perfect fifths, I don't see how any string outside of the A would agree with a tuner on equal temperament. Help me here?
Erin, that would depend on the tuner used, my tuner in particular goes by the frequency of the vibrations from the violin scroll. It also is actually designed for string instruments.Also, Fideli, tuning with a piano 5th is literally impossible...
Yes, I have a Snark; it senses vibrations on the scroll, but it is calibrated to identify pitch in equal temperament. Is there a tuner that is calibrated in Pythagorean tuning??
Many electronic tuners use equal temperament. E, D and G strings tuned this way would vibrate at different frequencies than ear tuning.
More advanced ones have an option to change it to a form of "Just" intonation that will give you the same tuning as by ear. Some people refer to this a violin tuning.
If your tuner only has Equal Temperament tuning, but also displays the +/- cents that the string varies from ET tuning, then you can still use it to do violin tuning. Set the A within +/-1c of 440.
Then tune the E to +2c higher than what the tuner wants,
the D to -2c lower than what the tuner wants, and finally
the G to -4c lower.
Aha! Thank you!
If we playing with others, we also have to make further fine adjustments. Because of their different thicknesses and stiffnesses, strings do not really behave like the drawings in physics books, and the harmonics which make a perfect fifth "blend" are not perfectly in tune.
We will all have noticed that we have to place our fingers a little further up the E-string compared with the other three. In a thick or stiff string, the wave shapes will start a fraction further from the nut or fingertip, and the pitch will be a little higher than theoretical measurements would predict.
This "end effect" will depend on thickness and stiffness, not on the total length, and so the dicrepencies I describe will be much less noticeable on a 'cello or guitar, although the guitar has its bridge at a slight angle so that the higher strings are a little shoerter than the lower ones, as curved frets would be tricky!
Different strings, maybe?
Definitely, unless the lower strings are thin and as flexible as the E.
Only in books on acoustics!
I remember my plain gut D's and A's coming in envelopes where "true fifths" was a selling point! (1960's)
Also, synthetic-cored strings don't break often, but deteriorate much faster than gut- or metal-cored ones. The various fibres and resins inside the windings become uneven.
Most E's are a plain wire of spring steel, but some brands offer a thinner wire wound with aluminium or steel,which are a little thicker, but more flexible, with a sweeter tone.
But most E's are "true"; it's the lower strings that cause the problem.
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June 23, 2004 at 09:48 PM · Good afternoon!
Most musicians (correct me if I am wrong, this is just out of experience) I know of usually get the A from either a electronic tuner/pitch pipe/tuning fork/oboe (in an orchestra). They don't tune their strings individually, they are played together until the sound of a perfect fifth is formed.
I would suggest you ask your teacher to play a perfect fifth for you to get the sound in your head, that way, you will soon be able to tune up quite quickly and easily (provided your strings are in good shape)
-Maximillian