Clammy Hands

February 28, 2004 at 01:38 AM · Hi Kismet,

I believe I teach your tense seven-year-old's twin sister. Resistant beyond belief, although her attitude is improving over time. However, her bowhold is in fact a bowgrip - her tension problem actually prevents her bending her fingers. So far we've tried shaking-to-floppy, doing the Jell-o thing, stroking the cat as a preparatory exercise etc. The cat was the only welcome exercise, as this is essentially an adult in a child's body... I think she considers me quite immature! Her mother now sits in on lessons, and things are gradually improving week by week - even, dare I say it, the bowgrip problem. I wonder if maybe it's a case of making the child feel as secure as possible in his lesson? I think the presence of a parent can be helpful in the case of young students; it can sometimes provoke immediate, surprising cooperation, although of course it's important to ensure the child doesn't feel threatened.

February 28, 2004 at 03:16 AM · Hi Sue, actually his mother does sit in on the lesson. I think the problem is that he doesn't want to take lessons, since his younger brother and older sister are taking lessons, too. I would feel uncomfortable and competitive and weird about it myself, but the mother seems keen on all three of them taking lessons. As much as I disapprove (since they are all starting at the same time!!!) and shared my concerns with her, I'm not in a good position to turn away students. She's a very sweet woman...a Montessori teacher, and I'm very poor! :)

But isn't it scary when little kids are even more uptight than adults?? Makes me want to tickle them to death. When I'm working with his bow arm I say things like, "let your elbow fall into my hand" but he can't "give" it to me. He obviously doesn't feel comfortable with me or with the situation, and I am normally very good with children. His mother is aware of the problem, but she seems insistent on lessons.

It's depressing trying to teach someone who doesn't want to learn, someone whose mother is totally committed to this unrealistic ideal.

I guess that's the primary issue. We who mainly teach the very young have to be perhaps 3/4 psychologist and 1/4 violinist to succeed. I'm just mad because I've never failed to make a connection with a student before.

k

February 28, 2004 at 10:14 AM · Kismet,

A child makes that connection at her own pace. Maybe your student is simply nervous - she is new, after all, and young and at a very insecure, awkward stage of life. Whatever you do, do not mention how sweaty her palms are; it will simply make her more self-concious. This problem might correct on its own sooner than you think.

Smiles are VERY key. Smiles, always!

March 1, 2004 at 06:06 PM · Quiet a difficult problem to deal with. I would try to make them play while walking,down bow on left foot ,up bow on right foot for instance. Singing while playing may also help to relax. an unorthodox bow hold may be useful too:hold the bow with the thumb on square nacre of the slide instead of the wood; some gypsies play this way . Best luck

March 2, 2004 at 12:57 AM · Hi Kismet,

I bring glad tidings. My Tension Twin has at last come around. Her first month or so was a nightmare, particularly the first couple of lessons without parental supervision (she requested to be unchaperoned, which I honoured until I discovered she wasn't practising). At this time I was extremely concerned about her bowgrip; I was wary of allowing her to play with such incorrect technique as, of course, she would be merely ingraining a bad habit. However the tension has begun to ease up now, and her bowhold has almost morphed into something satisfactory. More to the point, she's using long, straight bows and making a good sound. Cue praise, and gobs of it. Stickers, rounds of applause etc. In my student's case, the real fear is that of failure, particularly with an older sibling and a track record of picking up/putting down one activity after another. So naturally once she began to feel as if she was getting somewhere with the violin, her attitude started to do an about-turn, which loosened up some of that nasty tension. Last lesson was a pleasure. Don't give up on your student... I've had several occasions now when the most unlikely Cinderella-style transformations have taken place - and it can happen at any time, even after many months of seemingly futile lessons.

March 2, 2004 at 03:31 AM · Thanks all for the encouragement...

Sue, that is remarkable and fantastic about your student...congrats.

I am actually less concerned about the student with tension at the moment--as I've encountered tension in students to degrees--as I am concerned with his older sister who suffers from ridiculously clammy hands.

We are learning "violin hand" now, and I am AMAZED at the speed with which this girl sweats on the violin. She dries her hand off, puts the hand up and makes contact with the neck of the violin, hangs her fingers loosely over the strings, and INSTANTLY: sweaty pools beneath her fingers. There's something medical going on here...but in the meantime, I don't know what to do. Her effort and spirit are there 100%, and the shape and form look good, but when after a few seconds of "holding" or "forming" with either hand, there is so much sweat on the instrument/bow that it really becomes an obstacle.

Are there sweating diseases???

k

March 2, 2004 at 04:42 AM · Greetings,

Kismet, you did ask...

Profuse sweating that occurs at times other than in hot conditions or after exercise is usually due to a rare disorder called hyperhidrosis, marked by perspiration produced in abundance by overactive sweat glands. Excessive sweating may be all over the body or be limited to certain areas of the body. It most commonly affects the underarms, palms of the hands, and soles of the feet, although it has also been known to affect the face, neck, backs of the knees, groin, and beneath the breasts. It is a condition that affects both men and women and usually begins during childhood or at puberty, but improves spontaneously for many people in their mid-twenties or early thirties. The hyperhidrosis itself can cause anxiety or distress for people who have it, which leads to additional sweating, as you mentioned, further incapacitating them during social and business interactions. Fortunately, more treatment options and a safer cure have become available to help improve the quality of life for people with hyperhidrosis.

...make sure that what you have is primary hyperhidrosis (rather than an underlying condition that causes profuse perspiration, known an secondary hyperhidrosis, which would require treating the underlying condition first, often resolving the abundant sweating as well).

If you have primary hyperhidrosis, your provider may recommend the following treatment possibilities depending on how severe it is:

For mild hyperhidrosis:

Apply talcum or cornstarch powder to perspiration-prone areas.

Use an unscented, aluminum salt-containing antiperspirant, preferably one that's specifically made for application on palms and soles.

Dust medicated powder on affected areas to help soak up sweat and prevent bacterial growth.

For damp feet, slip on cotton socks and shoes. Alternate footwear to allow them to air and dry out in between wears. Regularly use and replace absorbent insoles in shoes.

For moderate or persistent hyperhidrosis:

Apply aluminum chloride paint (or other aluminum salt preparations) to perspiration-producing areas to block your sweat pores.

For severe hyperhidrosis:

Take a prescription anticholinergic drug recommended by your provider.

If none of these treatments are effective or satisfactory to you (because your primary hyperhidrosis is extreme and debilitating), let your provider know because, depending on your medical history, you may be eligible for a cure with an invasive or surgical option or for treatment with a neurotoxin injection.

With surgical procedures, some risk and possible adverse effects are involved which you need to discuss in detail with your provider, who will determine whether or not this is a good option for you. Results are immediate and often complete and permanent after having surgery. Two of these procedures include:

Endoscopic Transthoracic Sympathectomy -- an outpatient, minimally invasive, and quick procedure with speedy recovery time that involves cutting and removing the sympathetic nerves that control sweating of the palms, underarms, face, and neck. For some, sweating of the soles of the feet is also cured. Most people who choose this surgical option are cured or have a dramatic improvement in symptoms. In general, this procedure is safe when done by a skilled and experienced surgeon.

Surgical removal of underarm sweat glands to help stop sweating of the hands.

Recently, studies have found a neurotoxin injection, better known by its brand name, Botox, effective for those with hyperhidrosis who have not found success with the previously-mentioned treatments. Injected into the skin of perspiration-prone sites, this botulinum toxin stops sweat production by blocking cholinergic nerve terminals within three to seven days, the effect lasting for at least five months. Injections would need to be repeated when hyperhidrosis symptoms begin to reappear. Side effects are minimal and mostly mild. It's still not recommended for pregnant and nursing women and for women of childbearing age who are not on birth control. Considering how safe, simple, and effective botulinum toxin injections have been in treating hyperhidrosis, it has the potential to become the preferable alternative to surgery.

Other than the above-listed remedies and procedures, there are two techniques you can try that may be helpful for you as well:

Biofeedback -- using this technique, people can learn how to manage their sweating.

Iontophoresis -- this technique involves applying a low electrical current to sweat-prone skin surfaces on a recurrent basis in order to help stop perspiration.

Cheers,

Buri

March 2, 2004 at 07:08 AM · My god, Buri, your reply made me swoon.

March 2, 2004 at 11:43 AM · Greetings,

No sweat (as it were..)

Cheers,

Buri

March 2, 2004 at 04:18 PM · Many thanks, Doctor, we'll call you in the morning...

Actually last night I looked that stuff up myself. I am going to suggest to her mother that they see a doctor...as I am in no position to diagnose a medical condition. It may be as "simple" (ha!) as a psychological disorder, and it may be as physical as a thyroid problem...but that's not for me to say...

Regardless, this girl will be severely limited as a violinist, or shall we be frank--at ANY occupation she chooses--if the equipment keeps slipping in her hands. I'll have to discuss this with her mom privately...

From the land of many salty rivers,

k

March 2, 2004 at 06:05 PM · I don't know if anyone already mentioned this, but when I started to play the violin I sweated horribly as well. The reason being because instead of thinking of my teacher as a friend who was trying to show me how play the best instrument in the world, I thought of him as the most scariest judge no matter how much he smiled and cracked jokes. So maybe she is just like her brother where instead of showing tensity in not relaxing the muscles, she sweats. I remember I would have sweaty hands and sweaty arm pits. But after a while I started to think of my teacher as more of a friend and inspiration then just someone who was trying to judge me, and the sweating started to get less and less. Now I don't sweat at all. Maybe you should try showing this girl that you are her friend and not her supreme judge or superior to her, maybe show her that you make mistakes as well and that you'll both explore the violin together as friends instead of the master, slave method. That may not be how you see but that's probably how she feels because of her tension, so to make a long story short, just be her friend and she'll loosen up.

March 2, 2004 at 07:06 PM · Have I mentioned that she and her family told me that she sweats uncontrollably at home, even when only in the presence of her family? This is why I think it's something unrelated to violin.

March 3, 2004 at 07:17 AM · I had a friend with the same problem. He hated shaking hands with people b/c he knew his hands felt clammy. He suffered from hyperhidrosis and had minor outpatient surgery done to fix it. The weird thing is that now he can't sweat anywhere above his chest! No more sweaty hands, but no more sweaty forehead either when he works out. Anyway, he swears by this new surgical technique and loves his warm and dry hands.

March 4, 2004 at 05:09 PM · Okay Now I understand. Then she probably does have something or shes going through the starts of puberty.