How high did they get?
I know Geminiani went up to A. Anybody know the highest violin note used by Corelli, Bach or Biber? or any other Baroque geezer? Thanks.
Replies (18)
Geezer Locatelli went up to at least the G above Bach's A (I'm assuming I counted all the stave lines correctly!), and that would have been well in the region beyond the fingerboard - which it still is for many modern violins. Note that Locatelli, like everyone else of the period, would have used a plain gut E, which in alt gives a fuller-bodied, clearer and well-projecting tone than most steel Es - at any rate, that is my experience.
Actually, Locatelli went up to the C an octave above high C on the E string (basically approaching the limits of practical volume and playability) in his caprice no 22. I have found the highest playable note in terms of volume to go up to the D a tone above, but never seen it in music. The ABSOLUTE highest note that can be played with precision and tone is the E above this, 3 octaves above the open string.
Incidentally, I know consider each string as having a 3 octave range (2 octaves a string is for chickens). :D
PS: As someone why has played on an all gut setup, Trevor is right. The E is sweet and full up until the D before the high harmonic E. Above that becomes somewhat thinner, but it is still quite a bit more projecting and colourful than a steel E.
Haydn's highest note (in some first violin parts) is the very high D.
Vivaldi wrote up to this same D in his most virtuoso piece, RV 368 (I have the music).
Thanks folks, that was very helpful.
One thing that occurs to me about the modern fingerboard is that you actually don't need to press down to the wood that high up so the longer fingerboard is wasted wood. I can't speak for a gut E but certainly a steel E you can just touch it with just slightly more pressure than you would use for harmonics and it stops the string - try it! I have wondered if violinists were playing beyond their shorter fingerboards back in the day and the makers of the time understood that you don't need to waste all that ebony!
I really misread this thread title....off to make more coffee.
That's for another thread. (certainly there was lots of opium about - Watteau comes to mind)
Mary Ellen, already looking forward to the festival circuit in Colorado this year? ;)
A year or so ago in orchestra we were sight-reading a newly composed atmospheric piece by a local composer. There was one passage where we in the first violins had to play a sustained ultra-high G, the same one in Locatelli I mentioned earlier. It turned out we were doing no more than doubling the piccolo. Since when did a piccolo at the top of its range need support from the strings, I asked myself. The CM raised the section's concerns with the conductor who agreed that playing that G an octave lower was the way to go.
The composer was at the back of the hall and apparently didn't notice a thing ;)
hi A.O. was intrigued to read about this high note in Mahler 5, is it a harmonic perhaps? could you perhaps pinpoint the place in question? thanks,
"Mary Ellen, already looking forward to the festival circuit in Colorado this year? ;)"
Note the use of the word "they" in the thread title. I am a mere observer. :-)
@Jean: Sorry, I misread the D7 in Mahler 7 (not 5) as D8. But, the highest playable note that is E8 (3 octaves up the E) is found in the violin solo of the Ligeti Concerto. :)
Just wondering if Locatelli in his day (and indeed Paganini a century later) might have used a very light gauge E for clarity in those ultra high passages in his caprices. Our concert halls didn't exist in his time, so the sound would have matched the acoustic environment and been heard - the largest auditorium would have been a church with its useful ambience, followed by the larger salons of the aristocracy.
@Trevor: Yup! For Paganini, we have a set of his unused strings. He used the standard thinnest gauges of the time (strings only had one inconsistent gauge that depended on the guts in the string, unless specially ordered for scordatura etc, you would sort out the thickness you wanted).
Standard gauges for realistic baroque violin and up to about the 1850's (pretty much all of the music we play!) used (averaged to cut out extremes on either side):
E- 0.70 mm
A- 0.90 mm
D- 1.1-1.25 mm
G- 1.07 mm (A wrapped in 0.17 mm silver)
Paganini's example is not consistent, as he usually used the thinnest strings, which would be:
E: About 0.6ish
A: 0.75
D: 0.95
G: 0.90ish
@A.O. Thanks for sorting that out!
The highest note you can play today in a modern violin must be like E (E string) but two octaves higher, right?
May be F or G can also be reached within the fingerboard. But you can also play a note outside the fingerboard, can't you?
No, you can play up to E three octaves above the E (since the Logeti concerto uses this note and is written for a steel E), but a gut E (baroque or regular violin) carries the very high notes much better in tone and response, since pure gut is WAY more flexible. :)
But, if we are talking good and musical tone for use in a melody, then then the highest note (gut or steel) is the 2nd octave D-D sharp, above that the tone thins out because the pitch gets very high.
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April 3, 2017 at 11:03 PM · Bach's highest note was an A.