What's a true protege?

March 14, 2017 at 04:36 AM · You may be confusing "protoge", generally used to mean a student (without regard to talent), and "prodigy," which is usually meant to mean a young person of exceptional natural talent. For the latter, there are no hard definitions or standards. You know it when you see it.

March 14, 2017 at 04:38 AM · I've always considered this to be a particularly viable definition... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmj2vLKnwlQ

March 14, 2017 at 07:57 AM · "Protege" derives from "protect" and usually refers to someone who has a senior artist or sponsor helping her or him along towards a career. So you could say that pianist Martha Argerich has had a couple of proteges.

But it looks like you're really talking about "prodigy", someone unusually gifted at a young age (though older performers can play prodigiously well, too).

I have to say I haver never heard an 8-year old play as if he or she was an adult. On the other hand I have heard adults play as if they were eight years old.

March 14, 2017 at 08:02 AM · Talented kids are the future bread and butter of classical music industry, prodigies are something different, you know when you see them.

The problem lies in that you probably have to be of the bread and butter standard (professional of amateur that just didnt take music as a profession) to know the difference.

And as they are very rare, you do not see them often, alas I think Ive seen only one so far and he is a violinist soloist now, but even him Im not so sure as I was a kid myself when I saw him and although he played very well Im not still sure if he played that well.

From the youtube clips its sometimes hard to tell as one doesnt know how much work has been done to produce the excellent playing. A very excellent note memory and perfect pitch gets you quite far easily as a child but there is still something more that has to show in addition.

True prodigies also often have asperger- autism spectrum personalities themselves or such in their close families, so its not something one necessarily would want ones kids to be. Savant is a another term for them and probably people disagree a lot in what is regarded as savant and prodigy, I would assume also that there would be cultural differencies in regarding what is considered what.

March 14, 2017 at 02:35 PM · Prodigies are really amazing. Annie Meyers was 6 years old when she played the Vivaldi A minor concerto with our community orchestra. Now, it might not be that unusual for one so young to play that piece, but she played it as well as it could be played and it was immediately apparent that she had amazing sound. The next year she was one of the two young soloists who played the Bach Double Concerto with us, partnering with a high school student about 10 years older who had been our assistant concert master, sitting next to me for a couple of years. It was not long before Annie left the suzuki program to go to LA for lessons and then on to Dorothy DeLay at Julliard and her current still expanding career as Anne Akiko Meyers. She returned to her home town when she was 12 after several appearances on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and after soloing the Mendelssohn Concerto with the LA Phil to play it with our community orchestra as a tribute to her first teacher (our principal violist) and as CM I had a great seat - about 5 feet from her - WOW!

You might be able to find some old videos of her performances on the "Tonight Show" or you could watch early videos of Sarah Chang and such. There is an amazing little 5 year old girl playing piano (with raised pedals) in the 1939 movie "They Shall Have Music."

We have a niece (on my wife's side) who took to violin so fast that that as soon as she had picked one up her mother, who had been taking lessons, just quit after hearing her untaught daughter. When she auditioned for lessons at a music school soon after that she was immediately shunted to the best teachers and was granted scholarships for her violin studies there and everywhere she went from there. I only heard this niece play once, years later, when she was 16 and we played duets together. For a while, when she was 10, she played instruments in the back of a Chicago music store to convince incoming customers how good the violins they might buy were, She did not make it a career although she played as an AFM pickup violinist to earn money for a while - just showing up to play in orchestra concerts, no rehearsal. But that was about all and now she has actually not played for years. She is a genius with an IQ in the "Scorpion" TV show range - obviously a fast learner - of everything.

Yes, there are prodigies!

March 14, 2017 at 06:29 PM · A prodigy is a wonder, a marvel, an extraordinary thing or event. Can also be said of persons, so that a great musician (or chess player, mathematician, etc.) who is a child can be called a child prodigy.

March 14, 2017 at 06:55 PM · But for music, the technical ease must have mature taste, otherwise you simply get a talented playrr, not a protege.

March 14, 2017 at 07:46 PM · Agreed. There are lots of little machines out there, but few have something unique to offer in terms of expression. That is why so many who are labeled as prodigies simply fizzle out once they are past the "cute" stage.

March 15, 2017 at 02:26 PM · The reason they sound like machines is because they're technically ready for literature that is beyond their emotional grasp. That's not anyone's fault. Often for these amazing kids the only alternative is boredom. And if they "fizzle out" at least they have a skill that they can return to in adulthood should they wish to, and the brain-training that they got from musical education will probably help them in their non-musical educations and professions.

March 15, 2017 at 02:43 PM · There are other reasons that could happen as well. Tiger parenting, controlling teacher who doesn't want the student to play it in a way that rings true to them, and nerves could be possibilities. Then there are those with the full musical package.

March 15, 2017 at 11:14 PM · Okay, but almost all of thoze same machines are emotionally lacking (not devoid) when playing (including David Garrett and Hilary Hahn!)

March 16, 2017 at 08:15 AM · I just dont understand why quite often people comment the machine like playing of the very young prodigies and in a negative sense. They are still human after all and kids generally usually have a faster tempo and energy level in doing everything, so it shows in the playing of even the most talented ones. Being a prodigy doesnt mean theres no difference compared to the playing of the same prodigy when adult. Children are children even though they were prodigies. And besides teaching very small children you can easily see that windows for different skills open not at the same time, so you teach skills according to the open windows and with prodigies with the so called machine like playing the window for technical skills has opened very young and very wide, so they are very far technically when the windows for expression is just beginning to open alas the discrepancy.

Also sometimes people comment negatively about the prodigies that they will burn out or such because they play so much. Well not every violin prodigy wants to be a violinist when grown up, even though they could be, it doesnt mean that they necessarily burn out, they just start doing something else. Not always but sometimes these savants have multiple opportunities and violin playing is just a hobby, though it seems to others that its everything.

But still its not the easiest thing to grow with autism spectrum personality (again not saying every single prodigy has them but it is very common) so I think the difficulties some prodigies face when growing is due to those factors and not their violin playing.

March 16, 2017 at 05:12 PM · " The term child prodigy is defined as a person under the age of ten who produces meaningful output in some domain to the level of an adult expert performer."-see references 1-3 at the bottom of the child prodigy Wikipedia article.

We are discussing what a true prodigy is. By definition a prodigy is supposed to sound like an adult expert performer. A machine child playing with with no expression does not, as you stated. What is negative is when society jumps the gun and try to use this mechanical ability to forecast adult achievement. Prodigies who end up as ordinary adults tend to experience a "mid-life crisis" as teens, which occurs for various reasons.

If we are including the machine children in our definition of a prodigy, then burnout is certainly a factor, but it has also been noted that true prodigies tend to be intensely passionate about their craft. These children are also not immune to other obstacles in life. But often,

the fizzling out has to do with a lack of longevity in what one has to offer. Perfectly imitating the greats as a child is seen as spectacular, but once one becomes an adult, one is expected to produce something innovative and groundbreaking in order to stay relevant. Those are two different skills.

March 16, 2017 at 08:42 PM · I would say that a prodigy is someone that can do an exceptional amount of musical skills at a young age. A prodigy is someone that can teach themselves (or seem to know already) everything they would want to know! Also, a prodigy is someone willing to put in tremendous work to become better at something. In this case, that would be a kid playing for 30 hours a week consensually.