Which is a better violin brand/maker??

July 28, 2016 at 03:57 PM · Don't overlook Brobst in Alexandria and there are 3 or 4 shops in Richmond, VA. DC and Baltimore will also have dedicated shops.

I think all 3 makers you have named are "Chinese." From what I have seen, heard, and played I don't think you will go wrong with any of these choices - but you do have to try (with your bow(s) ) before you buy. My Jay-Haide European wood experience is limited to a cello that was excellent - for about $7,000 at least the equal of any $20,000 modern Cremona cello I tried at three different exhibits. I know a violinist who plays an excellent violin hand-made by Scott Cao and I chose a Scott Cao model 850 for a family member 12 years ago over about 20 other violins in their price range (~ $1,400 incl. bow & case) I tried including one French (ca 1927) and one Prague (1920s) that came in close. If you search you will find good impressions of Salvatore Callegari online including an earlier thread at this website.

My best violin is made of American woods (my 2nd $ 3rd best are European woods 4th is American), my best cello is made of Chinese woods (the other 2 are European made of European woods). All of the European makers used European woods and there is often little equality even among a given maker's work. One of the best violins I have ever played was made and bought in China (for $1,500) and I thought I was playing an 18th century Italian - it was that close to a Stradivarius I had played years before.

July 28, 2016 at 05:28 PM · One correction, Andrew. The Scott Cao STV-1500 series is "entirely built, varnished and set up in our Campbell CA workshop," quoting from their website.

July 28, 2016 at 05:35 PM · There are statistical analysis (ANOVA, MANOVA) which compare the degree of variations of a particular variable (or variables) within the group and among the groups.

Since violin sound attributes are not scientifically measurable (yet), any comparison between the groups (brands) based on individual, subjective and anecdotal evidence is useless.

A better and harder approach is to try a particular violin and forget about the brand. Ask a friend or a teacher to play for you. Do a blind test.

My 2 cents (Canadian)

July 28, 2016 at 06:03 PM · In that price range you will find quite a lot of violins. I would recommend going into violin shops and trying them out until you find one you truly like regardless of what the brand/maker is. :)

Google shows 8 shops in Virginia, and then there are the big music stores that might have them too. Look around and see what you find!

July 28, 2016 at 10:47 PM · I have tried around 10 each of those Jay Haide and Scott Caos, and there is enough variation that I can only make generalizations. I will say that of the Jay Haides I tried, none held up to demanding work in high positions. Many had very nice and robust sounds, albeit in lower positions, but none of them had the complete package in terms of tone and playability. Could be a setup problem. The Scott Caos I tried directly from their Campbell workshop had a hollow sound under the ear that might not appeal to everyone, but they generally had good playability. I would recommend looking at the Ming Jiang Zhu 909. The best of the ones I tried had great playability, a strong sound, and the best workmanship I've seen in workshop violins. But there were also a few stinkers in there, so ymmv.

July 29, 2016 at 01:29 AM · Mr. Chen, so you recommend a MJZ over Jay Haide?? Thanks, David

July 29, 2016 at 01:56 AM · You can't judge from a generalization. You need to actually play as many violins as possible. It's utterly foolish to shop based on brand when you live in a part of the country that has an abundance of good violin shops carrying well-set-up instruments in the student price-range. You should be paying ZERO attention to brand.

July 29, 2016 at 04:38 AM · ditto

July 29, 2016 at 01:14 PM · I'm with Andrew Victor on this - I can't figure out what all the fuss is about with European vs. non-European wood.

I concur with all of the advice to try as many instruments as possible - even ones that are out of your price range. Try to play them without knowledge of their prices - maybe take a page from that famous recent experiment in France (can't recall the investigator's name at the moment) and wear dark sunglasses while testing. :)

I have a Chinese violin with a recognized brand (Jay Haide a l'ancienne, Balistrieri model) and a completely un-pedigreed Chinese cello (the "house" cello of Stevens Violin Shop in San Jose, CA). To address the longevity question - another recent thread on this board - I purchased the cello in 2002 and it's doing just fine. It was somewhat more expensive than the equivalent Haide cello, but they would both be classified in the same general range of instruments (upper-level student, or second/outdoor instrument for a professional). In any case, my totally non-brand-name cello completely blew the Haides I tried out of the water. Most people who hear it think it sounds pretty great. The thing is, anyone who is even passingly familiar with string instruments can recognize instantly that it is Chinese wood - the maple sides and back are unmistakably non-European. So most of the comments I get are along the lines of "sounds pretty great...even if it is Chinese." My point here is that a lot of people hear instruments only after they've seen them and know their origins, so their biases kick in, consciously or not.

It's very difficult to be unbiased. There are many experiments in the field of economic psychology that show this - if people know that the cost of something (wine, or even pharmaceuticals) is higher, they'll rate it as better. If you try instruments in a more "blind" way, you just might find something that works really well for you, even if it lacks in snob appeal.

July 29, 2016 at 02:06 PM · There are lots of affordable quality antiques in your price range, don't forget to give them a try out against the Chinese violins you are considering, again don't go by brand, brand means very little, go by the individual instrument that you try out and are able to take home on trial, don't buy on the internet or by mail order unless there is no other option, a violin shop is where you should be considering violins, after all that's why they call it a violin shop, it has lots of violins to choose form, everyone's taste is different, and one man's "Strad" is another man's junker, so make up your own mind what YOU like and don't take other people's favourites too seriously because THEY ARE NOT YOU!!

July 29, 2016 at 03:05 PM · I agree with Lyndon. There's no reason to confine yourself to new instruments, especially when there are a ton of anonymous older instruments in that price range. There may even be bargains to be had from other students trading up, who might be selling privately -- ask around in your youth symphony and ask your teacher. (I don't know how similar Richmond is to DC, but around here, serious youngsters your age are trading up to $15k+ instruments, and most such students have had carefully-chosen less-expensive instruments they're moving up from and therefore have to unload.)

However, I would say: LISTEN TO YOUR TEACHER. If a teacher tells you that the instrument isn't suitable now, or that it won't be able to accommodate your abilities in the future, they are probably right. Some teachers don't really have the skill of telling what's good, but almost all of them have the skill of knowing what is unacceptably bad.

By the way, Scott Cao himself is a fine maker, but his own instruments are well out of your price range. The branded Scott Cao instruments you're looking at are workshop-made, not made by Scott himself.

July 29, 2016 at 03:14 PM · I'm also looking at similarly priced violins in order to upgrade my current Eastman 305. I've always disliked my violin so the faster I can find a different one, the better. I dread the work it will take because I live far away from stores that are convienent to get to (there is 1, 2h from my home the others are 3+ hours away.) As I've grown accousmed the "Amazon" way of shopping I want to buy a violin as easily as everything else.

There are an abundance of posts that have repeated what others have advised: go look at a bunch and see/hear for yourself. There was always a little voice in the back of my mind of disbelief and doubt. I'm an amature so it won't matter, I'm not professionally trained so I won't hear the difference. I've been taking lessons for 2 years so I won't have the experience to notice the difference. The list of excuses goes on.

I did get the chance to make it to the closest store 2 hour away and try a variety of violins a few months ago from beginner to advanced. An antique and a hand carved 25k one. I purposely just played them and did not take note of brand or price.

I was amazed at the tonal differences. There was no price consistency across the violins. I specifically remember playing this one violin that I thought sounded worse then my 305. When I looked at the tag it was marked 4000. I was pleasantly surprised with a student snow instrument at 1000. I absolutely loved the antique I tried at 5500. The 25k one was beautiful. The tone was smooth and even across all areas, but I didn't think it was easier to play then the antique.

After my trip to the violin shop I completely understood what everyone was talking about. I think at minimum one trip to a decent store should yield a violin in the price range one can be happy with. On the other hand, one can get obsessive about finding their perfect violin and spend many hours searching.

When going to a store it's a good idea to make a list of qualities you must have on your violin and think about how you want it to sound. It will help keep focused so you don't get overwhelmed, loose track, and get distracted from your original goal.

July 29, 2016 at 04:10 PM · good post!!