Sympathetic Vibrations
Hello, just today, my luthier switched my tailpiece from Ebony to Boxwood. This is increased overall vibrations of the sound inside the violin, and the violin became brighter, which is a good thing.
Something a little bit strange I am noticing is the powerfulness of sympathetic vibrations.
Before, if I played first G on D string, first D on A string, or first A on E string, I would get sympathetic vibrations on the string below.
Now. I can see ALL strings vibrating, whenever one string vibrates due to sympathetic vibrations.
In particular, if I play first D on A string. I can very well clearly see D string vibrating, AND G string vibrating, and very slightly E string vibrating.
Has anyone seen this before?
Replies (19)
Yes - one does have to damp sometimes. But all those vibrations are good and an instrument that sets of things (like wine glasses) in the room vibrating as well is great. (Of course if the glasses are full of wine then the effect is lost, as it is when the player is full of wine ...)
Thats why it's often great to have the piano lid open so you get some of the grand's vibrations, especially when the pianist is using the sustaining pedal. Playing in a resonant room is also nice, although sometimes it can be too resonant!
I actually really like the increased resonance, except the violin was loud before, making me to wear earplug sometimes to play, and now it's even louder.
I'll keep the ebony tailpiece for the future, whence I've decided my violin is too loud.
Was the tailgut they used the regular nylon cord or did they use the kevlar ones? I read in some places that the kevlar is known for allowing these extra vibrations/resonances in some instruments.
I have no clue quite to be honest. I think my luthier uses standard nylon cord, but I never asked.
I found my violin to have somewhat of a suppressed sound in the lower strings before the change, and now I really like it. The sound is louder, richer and more complex. I think I am going to start looking into quieter strings after I go through the Warchal sample sets though.
I'm starting to notice hearing problems.
Earplugs make me more aware of the lower vibrations coming through jawbone: I sometimes use a StradPad to absorb this, so that I can better judge my tone.
My Violin has alot of sympathetic vibrations as well. I can't tell if its a good thing or bad thing because to my ear it sounds so loud and out of control. Once in awhile during orchestra rehersals my violin will sound in response to others playing (not unlike when wind blows along a bottle and the bottle starts whistling).
I was thinking of trying Infeld Spiricore because of this description which says they reduce inertia.
The website description says, "Spirocore strings have a flexible multiwire spiral rope core. They offer a longer period of musical vibration and significantly reduce inertia. Spirocore strings are equally effective when playing arco or pizzicato. They are highly responsive and long lasting."
I interpret the information as these string would dampen the effect of vibrations without compromising sound?
Hearing about the difference of tailpieces makes me want to try out an ebony piece. A boxwood one is on my current violin. I think its a hill style since i can see a crease down the center.
Additionally, does a thicker bridge dampen the vibrations?
By that description the strings would increase the vibrations, not reduce them.
Right the "longer period of musical vibration" but then it follows with "reduces inertia". Rather confusing and contradictory.
It is very difficult to be subjective about differences in tailpiece wood differences. Whenever the tension is taken off the instrument and a new tailpiece--of any kind, even the same one--installed, the sound is ALWAYS brighter and more resonant. But that new resonance also diminishes over time as equilibrium is reached. After which it is difficult or impossible to remember exactly how or even if the sound is any different. I think it's mostly a case of hearing what one wants to hear. I use boxwood simply because I like how it looks. Any sonic differences are swamped by changes in humidity, strings, or bow.
I'll have to admit that my violin doesn't look good with the boxwood. It just seems out of place. I think my luthier and I both agree on that point because we both said "well, it looks... Different, with the new tailpiece", but I think if the sound will hold as it is now, I will take sound quality over the looks anyday.
The violin player can and should excite the most incredible vibrations from the instrument, as bowing technique is far more important than the instrument, although a good fiddle helps.
I have concluded to return to Ebony tailpiece because Boxwood made the instrument too loud. I mean, this is probably something preferred for most musicians, but as a hobbyist, I want to hear my violin under the ear, without earplugs.
Also, I use different rosin for different colour, and loudness, and even with the rosin that gave me softest, quietest sound was giving me crackling/distortion sound in my ears without the earplug.
On another thread today I raised the same issue as my possible namesake Steven J! Like Adrian Heath I sometimes find sympathetic vibrations annoying - on one violin to the extent that it put me off buying it. In addition to occasionally having to stop the resonance to avoid unwanted dissonance with the next note, I'm often aware of a change of timbre when I change from a more to a less resonant note (or vice versa) and I'm wondering if lower- or higher-tension strings might make any difference?
I tend to say lower tension. Higher tension will force a more powerful tone, but constrict the fine vibrations (less shimmer) but can allow the wolfy resonances to come through loud and claer.
What I'm very curious and wish to try eventually is the harp shaped tailpiece.
Manipulating afterlengths, thus manipulating tension of each string. I've only good things about them from manufacturer, and only the skepticism and bad things from people who've used them.
Mr Jones. I can only say that I like your first name.
While experimenting with my 15.5" Viola, I found that putting single string mutes on the afterlengths of string to help me fight the wolves. I also used small magnets at different locations of the tailpiece to adjust the tension on each string(relative).
I found that there is a "sweet spot" in between low-tension-wolf(i.e. fist position C-C# on G on many violins.) and high-tension-wolf(A-A# on 5th position G, or A string 1st position).
Basically, I can customize the "counterweight" for the sweet spot, but some aggressive or light bowing bring out the wolves.
I say, experiment!
Same name but two quite different issues I think! Steven's initial post, like mine, concerned the global resonance of the instrument which is generally perceived as a good thing. Can you have too much of a good thing? The violin I've played for the last 18 years is a lot less resonant than my new one, which may be responsible for its slight lack of warmth although its power and projection are pretty good. As Adrian suggests I'll try lower tension strings on the new one and report back.
Following on from Peter Charles's post of June 16, it would be an interesting experiment in one's practice room to open up one's Steinway / Bechstein / Bösendorfer grand, place a suitably heavy object (a bronze bust of Beethoven should do the job) on the sustaining pedal, and then get on with, and admire, one's fiddle practice.
Some years ago I came across an unexpected phenomenon arising out of resonances in St George's Hall in Bristol, England - the one with a wonderful acoustic that I've mentioned here before,. I was in the balcony audience at a Christmas Carol concert put on by my daughter's school in which one of the numbers was a selection of carols played by a team of hand-bell ringers. During their performance I and other members of the audience were looking around trying to spot the very good invisible flautist accompanying the ringers. It turned out there was no such person; what we were hearing were combination tones arising out of the resonances of the hand-bells in the hall. The nature of the simple harmonies being played on the bells made the combination tones sound like a descant played on a flute.
For those of us who can't afford a concert grand or are forced to practise in the bedroom, a few violins and violas hanging on the wall are better than nothing. Even Chinese fiddles from ebay will do.
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June 11, 2016 at 07:36 AM · Yes, and it can be annoying! I sometimes have to damp such ringing with a spare finger when the interfere with the music.
Why the change? The new tailpiece may be lighter, its natural resonance (tap it with a fingernail) may interact with those of the violin, and the new tailgut may be more flexible than before.