Playing with two issues: Crooked 1st finger, and long thumb?

October 3, 2015 at 08:42 PM · a) The whole arm has to adopt a position to allow you to put all your fingers where you want.

b) What you describe about your thumb is precisely why I went back to using a shoulder rest.

In 4th position, my wrist lightly touches the edge of the back plate; in 5th position, the edge of the top plats; in 7th position, the pad of my thumb is in the crook of the neck; in 8th position it is on the ribs; after that it comes round the edge of the upper bout, and the four fingers find themselves perpendicular to the strings.

Just my 2 centimes d'Euro.

October 4, 2015 at 01:56 AM · @Adrian: Thanks, but the problem is that my first finger CANNOT be made to hit the strings at the right angles with hand position while allowing vibrato.

My first finger can be made to finger the notes if my fingers are completely sideways from 6-7 pos. and up, but the 1st finger will still be too straight compared to the others to vibrate. :(

October 4, 2015 at 03:08 AM · If you could take a picture of your hand when its in position, you might be able to get better feedback.

You might need to change the position of the wrist to accommodate your first finger. I have a fourth finger that curves away from my first three and as a result have had to bring my wrist in a bit to have a good hand frame. If you had a teacher they could help you find the optimal hand position for your features.

As for the higher positions, there is nothing inherently wrong with weird finger angles as long as there is no tension. Eventually you should be able to vibrate with both curved and straight fingers.

Finger stretches can also improve the flexibility of your fingers. Make a v-sign with two adjacent fingers and try to pull them apart to get a 90 degree angle. This should help make awkward hand positions less so.

October 4, 2015 at 03:52 AM · don't forget to say "live long and prosper" while taking Austin's advice... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

October 4, 2015 at 01:18 PM · @Austin: I have a very good teacher, and I will post a picture shortly.

Problems is that I cannot use my wrist either, because doing so to fix my first finger means I have to curl my hand inwards quite a bit, which cannot lead to proper speed or facility.

You will see what I mean once the picture is up. :)

October 4, 2015 at 01:45 PM · Just to add that in the highest, more acrobatic positions, the vibrato movement along the string is proportionally reduced; and the vertical vibrato component may increase, not necessarily holding the string all the way to the fingerboard.

October 4, 2015 at 06:39 PM · Thanks Adrian, but the problem starts after 5th pos, and I don't use a lot of finger pressure anyways.

October 4, 2015 at 07:11 PM · Picture links now added to first post!

October 4, 2015 at 07:52 PM · Ok. There is nothing in your fingers to cause problems.

I have never seen anyone trying to play with their knkuckles parallel to the fingerboard! 'Cellists and guitarists, maybe, but their knuckles are much further from the fingerboard, which allows the fingers to splay apart.

For us violinists, the base of the index often touches the edge of the fingerboard, but the fingers are all diagonal, not perpendicular to the strings. Thus the vibrato uses a bending/stretching motion in the fingers, more than a side-to-side one.

Also, it is often the middle finger which must curl, rather than lean, against the index to produce a semitone without disturbing the ring finger.

October 4, 2015 at 08:20 PM · Everybody, please read what it says above the links! :)

I only placed my fingers that way to show how the 1st one curves, I don't play like that!!!

The second picture is my hand in actual playing position for the fifth position, where you can see the strange tilt of the first finger.

PS: My hands on the small side, not big. :)

October 4, 2015 at 08:51 PM · It's very hard to tell from just that one angle but it seems like the knuckles are too high so the angle the fingers attack the string from aren't ideal. You might try swinging your elbow to the left to get flatter knuckles. Also try experimenting with bringing the thumb way back towards the scroll, like an inch back.

It doesn't seem like there's anything drastically unique about your fingers/hand that warrants an unusual hand position. You just need to experiment with angles and the best way for your fingers to approach the string.

October 5, 2015 at 01:53 AM · @Jenny: I know it seems like my hands are too parallel, but that is the onlt way people with smaller hands (and more so for me because of my crooked finger) can play without restricting the flexibility of the hand.

The position I use has been worked out after lots of trial and error, and is currently the only way I can play my fourth finger consistently because my slightly longer than average 3rd finger makes the 4th finger reach more difficult (though the longer 3rd helps with fingering octaves 1-3 and playing tenths 1-3, though). :)

October 5, 2015 at 06:44 AM · On the viola I have "small" hands, and my young female students on their violins too.

So it is even more vital to have the fingers pointing more along the string, with the longer fingers curling, the index leaning back, to allow the pinky to stay curved.

For an expressive vibrato on the index, I often move the hand back one semitone to give the index a more rounded shape.

Thus it is the "arch" shape along the string which absorbs much of the vibrato motion from hand and forearm.

Try U-toob for videos of Kyung-Wha Chung..

October 5, 2015 at 01:48 PM · Hi A.O., better take Jenny's advice. Your base knuckles come out much too high. Your hand is in some kind of cellist position. Lower the base knuckles, bring your left elbow a bit back to the left, and bring your left wrist a bit back towards you. Concerning the so-called curve of your first finger, you should practice on opening up the hand between first and second finger. Good luck!

October 5, 2015 at 03:16 PM · Figured out what the problem was due to the comments here.

I was not curling my wrist towards me at all, and my hand was thus hanging off the neck with a pretty much straight left thumb and arched fingers.

Thank you everybody! :D

October 5, 2015 at 04:52 PM · Well, the average hand of a man is about 19 cm long and palm width about 8 cm according to here:

http://www.theaveragebody.com/average_hand_size.php

As such, small hands would probably be those comparable to the average size for a woman's hands (if you are a man), meaning hands about 17ish cm long and a palm about 7 cm wide would be "small". Both of my hand measurements are slightly larger than this, but 1st position still seels a bit big. :)

October 6, 2015 at 07:37 AM · It has a lot to do with how flexible and opened-up your base knuckles are. When I got back to the violin a few years ago and had to learn proper technique again, I started on the small hand position, learned to reach back with first finger, and all that. After a few years of exercise, practicing thirds, etc., my hand is now flexible enough so that I don't really need a strict small hand position anymore. Since Jenny is a professional violinist, she has had that openness and flexibility pretty much from the start as a child I guess, so she definitely doesn't need it.