White powder on Edge of my violin
Last April I had one of the pegs replaced on my UCWV (Unlabeled Chinese Workshop Violin) since I found gouges in the shaft. This was done as warranty work. At the time I pointed out an edge under the top that looked as if there was some powder in it. The luthier cleaned this up but I did not think to ask what it might have been.
I recently read Vigdorchik's Violin Playing, A Physiological Approach and have returned to a side mouned chinrest. A Kaufman style chinrest, I had been a Guarneri after I had been switching between a Flesch and a Berber.
I now see a return of the powder looking material in the edge in two locations.
This is looking at the lower edge near the end pin. Does anyone know what causes this and do I have a need to be concerned?
TIA
Pat T.
Replies (17)
It may be something used to fill the pores of wood too.
Did Toronto's mayor borrow your violin?
It could be cocaine.....
jokes aside.... it could be dried glue residue, or component of the varnish, the foundation layer, or something else, especially if the instrument is artificially aged.
If the seams are holding well and the instrument sounds good, just keep monitoring and hope for the best. Don't get surprised if (many) seams have to be re-glued at certain point in time.
Adulterated (cocaine) of course.
Thanks to everyone who has responded.
Rocky Milankov: “it could be dried glue residue, or component of the varnish, the foundation layer, or something else, especially if the instrument is artificially aged.
If the seams are holding well and the instrument sounds good, just keep monitoring and hope for the best. Don't get surprised if (many) seams have to be re-glued at certain point in time.”
John Rokos: “Adulterated of course.”
Oh, my. Okay, I will admit my lack of fortitude and resiliency in the face of a beautiful voice. When I decided it was time to buy a new violin I had already developed a philosophical abhorrence to the idea of Antiquing .
When my teacher and I met on 27 August 2012 to try violins I went in with the idea that I wanted a PV violin (Pristine Varnish). We tried well over a dozen instruments. In the end there were two instruments that I thought were above and beyond anything in the group, from a playability and performance criteria. Both produced sounds that bounced off the walls for a time after we lifted our bows. One was silky in sound, one was edgy and rough. At this point I fell deeply in love with the edgy one and I took it home.
The events of the trial were so stressful and intense that it was when I took it out the next day that, looking into the sound holes, I noticed the back had stripes. I knew it was antiqued but I really had no idea how pretty the wood was. For a while I thought of getting it unantiqued but the less done the better. I may over wipe it after each session. My teacher noticed that it was getting prettier, the color more even and such.
The instrument had been in the shop when I had the peg replaced and I had the luthier go over the instrument then. He cleaned the white powder then. This was last April so I had had the instrument about eight months at that time. I had planned on taking the violin for a checkup a week before our first anniversary, but my teacher and I were both so pleased with the instrument I decided not to bother.
Now that I have switched from a center mounted chinrest to a side mounted one and shifted how I hold the instrument it is sounding incredible. When the owner of the store played it on October 28, I could not believe how beautiful my instrument sounded. The same when I had my teacher played it later the same day. I had both of them evaluate the instrument because it had all of a sudden developed a sound I didn't understand. My teacher called it masculine, I thought it kazoo like (only under the ear). It is also very much louder than it had been.
I will take it in today or tomorrow to be looked at, and then I will keep an eye on it.
Do violins, especially new ones, or old ones, come unglued very often? Or is that just me?
Perhaps you have something from you case lining or padding that is decomposing or left from construction of the case.
Clifford Green: ”Perhaps you have something from you case lining or padding that is decomposing or left from construction of the case.”
Excellent thought Clifford.
The mystery will persist. I took my violin to the shop (Blackerby Violin Shop). My favorite sales person was there and while the luthier began looking at my instrument we inspected the case. Just the normal gunk, fluff mainly.
So the verdict: “It is too white to be rosin.” I was reminded to always wipe my instrument after practice. I do, I even admitting to perhaps over wiping it. ”It is alcohol soluble” and ”The violin is well sealed”. So there we have it. Mystery powder gone, but from whence it came, no one knows.
Have you or your luthier used a violin cleaner/ polisher a few days
before noticing this? This looks exactly like the residue left when the violin is not completely wiped down around the ribs, after the job.
Jack Rushing: ”Have you or your luthier used a violin cleaner/ polisher a few days before noticing this? This looks exactly like the residue left when the violin is not completely wiped down around the ribs, after the job.”
I have never had the instrument cleaned or polished. I bought it new just over a year ago. The only thing I did was change the chinrest.
I was over using rosin and have cut back since the store owner played my violin. If it was rosin then I do not understand the aerodynamics that would have caused it to accumulate in the two areas that it did.
My favorite clerk remembered that the last time the accumulation was under the top and in the treble c-bout area.
In addition to the lower area shown in the picture, there was also a shorter accumulation under the top but more just below the widest point of the lower bout.
Given the vigor with which wipe my instrument after every use I find it difficult to understand how any thing could have built up. Especially given that the area shown under the back was over two inches in length.
Since this has happened before, who knows, it might happen again. I will keep an eye on it.
Thanks to everyone who responded. I am still looking for answers if you think you might have one.
TTFN
Pat T.
I still think its probably rosin, and the simple reason its were it is is because your cleaning cloth doesnt reach all the way into corners, try cleaning the areas with a clean dry stiff bristle brush, it should come off, unless it is rosin it may have already stuck to the finish, in which case put some mild soapy water on the brush. And test carefully that the water doesn't harm the finish first.
What you are seeing at the edge is residue from the rubbing and polishing of the new instrument. Sometimes it takes some time for it to show. It's not anything to worry about.
I experience your mystery on my own violin, on the parts you've said, on the low edges between the back and the ribs, just near the endpin. My violin has not been worked on recently, but I did notice that some of those white material has shows the day after sweating a lot while practice (and forgetting to wipe it afterwards). It seems to run where the drops of sweat would usually flow towards, most of it happens on the rib-backplate edge where my neck would go in contact with the ribs, just left of the endpin.
If I wipe the sweat off, it doesn't show up the next day. It's probably reasonable to say that my sweat causes it, but to answer what is it and how it happens isn't something I can do.
There is salt (sodium chloride) in sweat.
why are you sweating all over the ribs of your violin??
I won't take space to personally cite and thank the last few who responded. I do want you to know I really appreciate your thoughts on this matter.
I really want to go with “residue from the rubbing and polishing of the new instrument. Sometimes it takes some time for it to show” since it is the least likely to cast blame on me. But the evidence points to the other possibilities.
The white powder that appeared last April was under the edge in the treble c-bout. I do remember sometimes over rosining to the point that while watching to maintain a straight bow I would see clouds of rosin leave the hair. But even if this was the case last April, I do not think it was the case this time.
The sequence of recent concerns. October 23 I switched to a side mounted chinrest. October 25 the violin started sounding very different. October 28 I had the violin evaluated by a professional where I bought the violin and by my teacher. November 5 I posted my concerns about the appearance of the white powder.
There was an event that did not make it into my notes (practice / maintainance spread sheets) and I must thank Wap Salonga for his comment. Just before I took the violin it to be evaluated on October 28 I had decided to start using a handkerchief over the chinrest and the bottom of the violin.
When I first noted the change in the sound of my violin I spent one practice trying to find the cause and to catalog everything that seemed different. Not only was it a particularly intense practice but the weather had changed and my room was warmer than usual.
With a normal practice if might find moisture on the chinrest and in the past occationally on the tailpiece. But this time there was sweat running down the channel between the perfling and the edge off the top and between the ribs and the plates, all on the lower the treble bout. I thought I did a good job of wiping the instrument, but there is a good chance I did not get the rag up into the seam as much as I should have. After wiping the instrument I noticed some roughness on the lower edge of the back and decided to start using a handkerchief. Though there is some roughness in places that is part of the mutilation, I mean antiquing.
So I now have to acknowledge my griminess and admit my imperfection in this mater.
I will endeavor to always use a cloth between me and my violin and will continue my normal post-practice cleaning of the instrument. I begin with a cork on the strings, then a small blue microfiber to dust away the rosin, first over the strings, between the strings and finger board, under the fingerboard, etc. Finally I wipe the entire instrument with the larger black microfiber cloth, just hard enough to not put undue pressure on the instrument, but enough to … (well we don't need to go there).
Again thanks to everyone who offered ideas on this strange appearance. I think the source of the powder has been found, disgusting as it might have been.
TTFN
Pat T.
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November 6, 2013 at 03:31 AM · Powdered rosin can look white.