Violins: What does size have to do with tone?
Why are violins the specific size they are? What creates the tone of the violin?
Replies (16)
Bass response, as it is in loudspeakers, is a function of size. I wouldn't be surprised if the violin were actually slightly small for optimum G string response. This would explain why so few violins actually attain a great bass response, and why those that do cost a fortune. However, any bigger and it would be less comfortable for most people.
hi;
i recall arnold steinhard saying, in one of his books, that his storioni violin was a rather large violin that had originally been planned as a viola and that this contributed to the tone quality and strength.
Lyndon, to continue in this way... I truly think (to my dissatisfaction since I have small hands) that most instruments were made for a man size hand. Not only violin... cello, clarinets, sax, big brass instruments etc. The same way the bow was probably made for the average men's arm lengh... (go ask if I'm right to any 5 foot girl!)
I cannot talk about the size of the box but I am talking about the finger board and neck size.
These big stretches to reach some notes and the way some scores were written (decimas, chords requiring 1 finger to block two strings at the same time etc.) makes me think violin was bulit by men for men... (back then)
Fourtunately, we can help a bit by putting strings closer, reduce neck size etc.(or take a 3/4 instrument even if this may be accompany by some not so fun side effect for sound volume and finding a good quality 3/4 violin) but for most things, it's still adapt yourself to the instrument!
On the positive, makers and teachers are now more aware of this and have more alternatives to help these students.
As for the sound box, could it be not only for sound volume but also to create a portative instrument easy to carry along everywhere?
A violin in general is 355 mm (35.5 cms.) long (the soundbox), but there are variations for more or less.
We can't relate tone to size, since a smaller sized violin can have deeper ribs or a wide model, compensating for some milimeters less in the soundbox.
Some del Gesù violins are on the small side, 552 mm and even 549 mm, but they sound powerfull and dark.
In terms of market a violin that is very near or over 360 mm is considered "oversized", with impact in its price, although the instrument may sound very good, it is just a question of market. Just pay attention in how many "oversized" violins you see in auctions.
A bigger body confers a greater radiating plate area, which generally means that it has more power It's a gross oversimplification to say that nothing else but size has an effect. In the most general sense, a smaller instrument will tend to have a better high frequency response and would be characterized as having more brilliance. High frequencies do better with small plates since there is less mass to move.
I am far from an expert on this and I've probably used horribly wrong terms here, but here's how I understand it. The body of a stringed instrument serves as a resonating cavity. A resonating cavity of a given size will have an optimal resonance frequency. The closer that optimal resonance frequency can be to the resonating frequency of the strings, the better the resonance. This is more or less was dictates the proportions of the body of the instrument.
The snag is with the viola. The body size that gives a resonating cavity best matched to the range of the viola strings is too big to be held under the chin.... at least when it's a standard pattern body. This is the idea behind the chin-held violas with lobes & enlarged quadrants (like the Rivinius model). The other solution is to remove the chin-restriction altogether and play it like a cello, known as the upright viola.
"Some del Gesù violins are on the small side, 552 mm and even 549 mm, but they sound powerfull and dark."
The irony is that because of this anomaly, many modern makers make small Guarneri models with thick plates. It seldom works, from what I've seen.
Hi Scott! I made a violin last year, 552, inspired in Del Gesù, thick plates (top with 3 mm, back from 3.2 to 6.5 mm) and it sounded darn good, our concertmaster played it in the orchestra and gave a private recital in my home:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrtZ8oeCWbU
I would not think twice if someone offered me a long Strad, Maggini or any Brescian long violin.
Yes, Long Strad, Magginis and Brescians are not affected by that, but other violins are, and hugely....
The dimensions (shape and size) of an object determine the modes in which it can vibrate, specifically waveforms and wavelengths/wave-numbers. Frequencies relate to these through the sound speed (but not as trivially as v/L in general). The properties of the material come in here but the air modes will be the same for given dimensions.
The original "modes" of 95% of del Gesù violins were lost forever when they were regraduated but, in spite of that, they are sounding darn good!!!
I have read in various sources that the "cavity" resonance depends on the air volume, the size of the f-holes, and to a much lesser extent, the flexibility of the plates.
In my viola, 16" and narrow-bodied, the fairly small f-holes lower the air resonance to a low B-flat, but with less power (and less bandwidth) than a wider viola with larger holes.
If plates are thinned, the increase in flexibilty lowers the wood frequencies faster than the decreasing mass raises them.
I have had the pleasure of trying a violin and viola by Mr.Manfio: they sound really marvelous!
Thanks Adrian!
And, Adrian, I miss Paris...
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April 29, 2013 at 11:32 PM · "Why are violins the specific size they are? What creates the tone of the violin? "
I will be interested to hear the answers that follow.
I assume you are not talking about why there are 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 4/4 size violins, but rather why are there variations in 4/4 size violins, correct?
For me, I'm not so much interested in the different tone from slight variations, but rather something that came up fairly recently.
I had an "inexpensive" violin sitting around in its case for many years. I bought it as a second violin and never liked its tone really.
I bought it from a friend, dirt cheap.
Recently something came up that made me dig up the violin, re-string it to gut strings (something I had never done) and try it out again.
Lo and behold, it has now become my number one violin!
What's different about this violin?
Well let's start with the name.
The label says:
Repaired by C.F.ALBERT 205 S. 9th St.
Violin maker and repairer
Philadelphia 1887
Giovan paola Maggini
brefcia 16_
So the violin is at least 126 years old.
If it's an original Maggini, then it's much older than that. :)
What made me switch over to it?
Well beside the tone being quite decent after I put on the gut strings, the main reason is the 'size' of the violin.
It's actually part of the reason that made me stay away from the violin until now.
Each time I picked up the violin, I couldn't get used to the small feeling of the neck.
My left hand seemed to slip a bit because it was so small.
For some strange reason when I returned to the violin a couple of months ago not only was the 'smallish neck' not slipping anymore, but I actually much prefer it to the chunkier neck on my Doetsch violin.
I was always under the impression that the entire violin was smaller in size to a 'standard' size 4/4 violin.
Well I took some measurements a couple of weeks ago and surprised myself.
The violin looks smaller, but in fact it is very close to a standard violin in length, fingerboard length etc. etc.
The bouts and waist are slightly different in size to my Doetsch but apart from that the rest of the measurements seem the same.
The thing that has me confused the most however, is when I measured the neck circumference of the two violins, they were just about the same!
Perhaps the slight difference just seems to be huge, but is in fact very small?
All I know is that I find it much easier and more comfortable to finger notes on the Maggini than on the Doetsch. The stretches/distance between notes seem much closer on the Maggini.