Bach G minor Presto

February 26, 2013 at 04:51 AM · I'm not sure what "actual tempo" means. There is no number you can put on it. Probably no faster than you can cleanly play it.

February 26, 2013 at 12:00 PM · 1. Actual Speed of this movement?

2. Practice tips?

3. Difficulties (Technical and Musical)

4. Relative Difficulty of this piece

1. there are some difficult places where you have to be very quick and precise with stringcrossings. Thos will dictate your tempo. It should be quick though.

2. Practice left hand in chords. Anticipate every stringcrossing with the fingers of the left hand. Practice slowly on the string and with very little bow to simulate the movement of playing fast. Use rhythms and different accents as variations.

3. As I said in number one, stringcrossings. And sometimes you need to go in positions up to the 3rd position quickly. Otherwise cleanlyness and tempo.

4. Depends on how you want to play it. To master this piece and being able to constantly play it flawless and musical its very hard. But its harmonically rather simple and g-minor is a comfortable tonality on the violin.

February 27, 2013 at 07:07 AM · I love this movement very much as a piece of music and as an etude. It (and the other 2 analogous movements in the other sonatas) is excellent to learn and keep in the repertoire always, because inside of it is so much of the violin technique, and at the same time a great deal of musical exploration. I believe that the techniques you learn here, if done correctly, stay with you for life and will give you a very large boost, as it did for me.

Do not underestimate the importance of basic principles in your practice. here are some things i found important when i was learning it and every time i come back to it.

-Left hand first, Right hand second: when you practice always think the left hand measuring/shifting/placement precedes the right hand.

-do not forget the simple fact of 4 string levels in your right elbow!!

-keep shoulders down and relaxed, but DO lift the elbow for d and esp g strings, DO adjust left elbow constantly depending on your physique/position of fingers.

-practice with exaggerated and contrasting methods to get the most value for your time. more on that below.

-in left hand think "piano", in right hand think "forte". i dont mean about how loud you sound.

-make a plan with the metronome: do not go above your comfortable slow tempo for a week or so as to get intonation really confident. only after that can you become an inventor with bowings.

-record yourself

you probably know most of those things, but it's never bad to hear them again, even if one is already very advanced.

More specific stuff:

Left hand:

-For basic intonation, thinking in chords is excellent as was pointed out. do everything slowly, playing each note as a double stop with the next/previous. don't allow bad intonation, simply.

-Do not slam fingers - this only gives the illusion of articulation. you must eventually crawl like a cat. but to articulate without slamming you need to develop very strong fingers. (etudes, scales, exercises are good for that)

-as was mentioned, using various patterns of rhythms and accents always pays off IF it's done correctly. Never forget the point of those exercises: to exaggerate which ever beats happen quickly in the given pattern. Those fast bursts of notes must be fast and must be clean. Then, the beat(s) of pause can be as long as you want/need to prepare for the next burst of notes. in other words, turn your metronome off.

Right hand:

-alternate practicing pp/ff and smooth detache/marcato/martele. don't waste a lot of time just playing mf with normal bowing. that is the slow way to learn. you must exaggerate and constantly prove to yourself the purpose and efficiency of everything you're doing.

-practice opposite bowing

-if you have coordination issues with the string crossings, practice the passages on open strings, and alternate practicing the string crossings in a very angular and precise manner (in terms of controlling the level with elbow), and then quite smooth but still accurate motion.

-AFTER intonation is more solid, invent MANY bowing patterns to practice. concentrate on the ones that give the most trouble. examples:

*2 notes per bow legato, starting legato, and also starting with 1 note separated

*staccato 4 down, 4 up (martele-type at moderate tempo, NOT the fast reflex staccato)

*4 notes per bow legato

*detache at the frog with small bows

no matter which patterns you choose, care about each one. do real legatos, clean staccatos, etc.

-feel every note in the index finger and in the wrist. best way to describe this is a sort of accent on every note. but not one with bow speed, it should be done with the same movement you use to pronate - impulses felt through the index finger.

not hearing you play, that's a general guide i can suggest. if you upload a video or something i would be happy to give very specific comments

d

February 27, 2013 at 07:43 AM · This advice from Daniel (D Kurganov) is excellent and very detailed. We should be grateful that we have him and several others that freely give highly professional and expert advice. Advice coming from very fine players.

Whatever level we are at we need to remind ourselves of all these very relevant points.

February 27, 2013 at 08:43 AM · Play it 3 x 2 notes instead of 2 x 3 notes, which is quite common mistake...

February 27, 2013 at 09:43 AM · thanks Bohdan, I was just trying out this piece and indeed I initially was playing it 2x3 which sounded rather boring. then upon seeing your comment playing it 3x2 the piece sounds completely different and exciting.

February 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM · I would have thought it obvious that its in 3/8 and not in triplets?

February 27, 2013 at 03:50 PM · I think it is not one of them. In some places its 3x2 in some others 2x3 in even different places the accents are even more different

February 27, 2013 at 04:06 PM · You can enrich the piece by opposite phrasing on some particular spots (bars) of course. It can be applied on any piece in fact.

February 27, 2013 at 06:28 PM · a more tricky and fun exercise for this piece, i got from prof. zakhar bron:

-do the bowing: 1 down 2 up (tied)

-accent the 1st, 5th, 9th, etc note. (in other words the 1st note of every 4, as if it were in duple rhythm, but keep the integrity of the triplet bowing!)

russians call this 'paganini bowing'

have fun!

February 27, 2013 at 07:58 PM · Yes to what Simon said, sometimes 3x2, sometimes 2x3, and also sometimes 1x6. It keeps changing throughout the movement. That is one of the things that makes the movement interesting.

February 28, 2013 at 11:53 AM · Maybe the only measure I would play 2 x 3 is No. 111. Otherwise I would keep 3 x 2 or 1 x 6.

I find applying too much alternating with 2 x 3 pronciple too obvious, cheap, maybe tawdry, or ho to express it in English...

For exapmle, measures 25 - 29 coud prompt us for 2 x 3 phrasing. But in my opinion right here and on similar places, the conflict between the natural 3 x 2 phrasing and the original bowing made by Bach (3+1+1+1, which is 3+3 in fact) is the most charming on it.

Promoting alternating very different and contrast phrasing principles too often, or even regularly, would turn the piece to Bohuslav Martinu or Igor Stravinskij style.