Vivaldi: summer

July 25, 2012 at 08:03 PM ·

July 26, 2012 at 02:58 PM · At bar 39 I'm in 3rd position, then in bar 46 I drop to 2nd position at the C, and then at bar 48 I drop to 1st position at the B-flat and for the rest of the section. Maybe there are better fingerings but this seemed easiest to me. That means open string A's in 50 and 51 but I think that's just fine here.

Update: Brandon, my teacher did not like those fingerings at all. He helped me understand the fingerings at my lesson just now. I'll pass those along to you later today.

July 27, 2012 at 07:48 PM · As Joel said on your other thread on the same topic, the passage is marked "Il Cucco" which means "The Cuckoo." My teacher suggested the following fingerings. You start measure 39 in third position. At measure 41 you can shift up to 4th position, and then in measure 43 you can go to 5th position. Once you are in fifth position, in measure 45 you can play the Bb with your fourth finger on the A string. Then you start moving back down the fingerboard: 4th position starting with the Eb in measure 46, 3rd position starting with the D in measure 47, 2nd position starting with the C in measure 48, and finally back to first position in measure 49. The only shift of more than one position at a time is at measure 34 (from 3rd posn in 33 to 1st position in 34, aided by using the open string for the A in 34).

July 27, 2012 at 08:18 PM · Paul,

You are making it much too complicated. Remember as you go into higher positions on the A string the sound is going to get tighter. You are the soloist playing with the orchestra. If you want to be heard against the orchestra you should stay in the lower positions. It will be a better sound. Also there are too many shifts with your fingering. In Vivaldi and more so with Bach you are really playing across the violin and not as much vertical. By shifting down to 1st position in measure 45 you only have one shift. Below I have repeated my post from the second thread so that you will only have one thread to follow.

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Brandon,

The fingering for this passage is not difficult.

Your part is supposed to resemble a cuckoo bird.

So the important part of this figure is the inside voice not the repeated notes. Measure 39 should be in 3rd position and you continue in 3rd position until measure 45. I just shift from 4th finger D in previous measure to 4th finger B flat in 1st position. The bow should help you in making this shift so that you do not get an ugly slide (lift the bow before you shift to 1st position, actually the whole passage should have space between each stroke). After that you can remain in 1st positon until the end of the passage.

July 27, 2012 at 11:29 PM · oops sorry for posting this twice...my next lesson is on Monday and ill bring up your suggestions. the fingering i was given i couldn't do it at tempo even if i practiced it slow and gradually moved faster.

July 28, 2012 at 12:47 AM · Brandon, the best fingerings for you are those given you by your teacher. If your teacher does not like my fingerings then please do not use them.

I was curious what a top-flight professional would play, and fortunately there is a wonderful HD YouTube video of Julia Fischer playing this piece, see link below. The section of interest starts at 1:15 of the video. Play it on full screen and see if you can determine if she is in first position at Bar 45. I do not see daylight between the heel of her left hand and the upper bout of her violin until measure 47.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLP1pqNx0v4

A little harder to see but I think it is the same with Nigel Kennedy (a bit of an unconventional fellow but obviously no slouch).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iJ40CeY7y4

Neither Kennedy nor Fischer has any trouble being heard above their respective orchestras.

There is also a youtube of Finnish violinist Mari Samuelsen -- her playing is not quite as clean as Fischer's but still quite good I think. It seems Samuelsen drops to third position (I'm not exactly sure from what) at bar 45 and there is a small but audible gap, you can see she is working very hard right there to make an awkward shift. That would be more manageable by staying in 3rd position all the way from Bar 39. Then you can drop to 2nd position in 46, etc., as I mentioned in my original reply to you.

July 31, 2012 at 07:19 PM · I think the above posters have not read the score carefully, or, at least, are not wanting to follow what Vivaldi has written.

The fingering for this section is actually given by Vivaldi (a rare instance in Baroque repertoire!).

You quoted it in your initial post.

Canto = A string

Cantino = E string

"Tutto sopra il canto" means "all on the A string." So you play on the A string from measure 31 to measure 38, at which point you are in sixth position.

In measure 39, Vivaldi writes "Sopra il cantino", which means "on the E string". So, you shift down from sixth position to third position at measure 39. You stay in third position from measure 39 to measure 44.

You shift down to first position on the Bb in measure 45 (remember, this is still sopra il cantino, on the E string). You can play the first Bb with the third finger if that is easier (technically second position), and then the G with the second finger (first position).

Easy!

July 31, 2012 at 07:36 PM · Jennifer, you wrote:

"Tutto sopra il canto means 'all on the A string.' So you play on the A string from measure 31 to measure 38, at which point you are in seventh position."

Of course I saw that in the score ... but ...

The very first "G" note in Measure 31 is below A. It can not be played on the A string. Likewise there are several notes at measure 38 and beyond that cannot be played on the E string at all. Am I missing something?

July 31, 2012 at 08:09 PM · Hi Paul,

We are referencing the high, repeated notes (the "pedal point" notes). So, all the pedal point notes are played on the A string (canto). All the lower notes G, A, B, C are played on the D string (tenore), going from third position (G), to fourth (A), fifth (B), and sixth (C). Oops, I said seventh position earlier. It's only sixth position.

Hope that's clear.

July 31, 2012 at 08:13 PM · Yep, that's clear. I've never seen it performed this way though ... I have to wonder why not. I'm also starting to get curious about which fingerings Brandon's teacher gave him. :)

July 31, 2012 at 08:30 PM · One of the great things about this fingering is how well it works, and suites the music. The change from the A string to the E string, where Vivaldi indicates, perfectly suites the passage and it's harmonic structure. Just give it a try, or maybe have a listen with the score.

Shifting to first position early, as most do, doesn't have the same effect as shifting later, where Vivaldi indicates to shift. Vivaldi's a genius! But we already knew that! :)

July 31, 2012 at 09:16 PM · hi everyone! well my teachers fingerings are at measure 45 i go back in first position with the fourth finger on Bb...i just dont like shifting back that far and that fast. the rest is all in first from there on. also i find my self doing spicatto after durring that part...i think its the shift

August 1, 2012 at 01:16 AM · Brandon, practice more slowly at first so that you can be in control of your bow stroke. As you have doubtlessly figured out, this is really a "bowing piece" in many ways.

Jennifer, I will try it, but I was pretty amazed when my teacher gave me a set of fingerings and then I looked at Julia Fischer on youtube (which I'm pretty sure my teacher has never seen) and she's playing the same fingerings as far as I can tell. :) I have an urtext edition but I'm curious what other editions have for fingerings there too.