Liebesfreud= love's pain :-/

December 26, 2011 at 05:20 AM · I'm returning to my beautiful violin after a hiatus that spanned multiple decades. When I jumped back in, I took a couple of lessons, found some free Kreisler tunes, and started in on Liebesleid & Liebesfreud, and the Preludium & Allegro. All push me in different ways. None are easy for me.

There is one set of double-stops in Liebesleid that causes me pain. O U C H = the double-stop series in first position on the E-string from G-F# with the A-string E-D#. Nine months ago the teacher suggested not practicing them for more than a few minutes at a time.

Life got stressful and I switched to easier repertoire. Now, I try it again, and I'm wondering if maybe I'd be better off with a 7/8 size violin. I'm average sized, for a woman, 5'4" with an average hand size.

The vibrating string length on my violin is 33.1 cm (adjusted by a top-notch luthier) although the nut & delicate neck are a 7/8ths in width.

I don't have short stubby fingers, but I don't have a man's size hand, either. Do I just need to stretch out the muscles/tendons, or can I blame it on my plus-sized string length? (everyone needs an excuse, or four, right?)

Replies (6)

Shen-Han Lin

December 26, 2011 at 06:22 AM · I had this problem before, too. I'm not sure if it's the warm up or stretching. But I fixed it by playing the whole "Melodious Double-Stops" by Trott (book 1) everyday after scale. After a few weeks that note (or similar one such as D on G string with F natural on D string) can be dealt with ease. But be careful that book 1 has 30 etudes, and if you feel sore in your hand you should take a rest. I remember the first time I had 3 rests in between and took me over 90 minutes to finish the whole thing. 2 weeks later I only need 1 rest and it's about 40 minutes with the rest. Even now I still warm up with Trott if I am practicing some pieces with tons of double stops or chord (such as Bach).

Henry Butcher.

December 26, 2011 at 10:27 AM · I copied the violin melody from the piano accompaniment. I saw Stern play it on the Muppets.

I worked it out that all these double stops are minor 6ths. The first 3 stops beginning at bar 4, played with fingers 3 and 2, then the next 3 played with fingers 2 and 1, finnishing with fingers 3 and 2. They all slide down and back a semi-tone, melodicly.

Changing of position facilitates the repeat-fingered stops and relaxed pressure will create smoothness between the changes.

Jim Hastings

December 26, 2011 at 03:39 PM · "Nine months ago the teacher suggested not practicing them [the double-stops] for more than a few minutes at a time."

The teacher is right. Stretch out your hands and arms and do some vibrato exercises for a few minutes. Then go back to the double-stops.

I recommend starting warm-ups in 3rd position with basic finger exercises on the E string. Repeat the pattern on A-D-G in turn. This gets the blood pumping fast, crucial before stretching. It's the first part of my warm-up routine, right after tuning -- it takes me 1-2 minutes.

Then go down to 1st position and place all four fingers at whole-step intervals -- one finger per string. Notes are Ab-F-D-B. Hold this stretch for 30 seconds -- provided that you don't feel pain.

As I've said previously, I recommend a 20-minute walk at about 3.5 mph before practicing. This gets the core temperature up and keeps it up a long time afterward -- again, highly beneficial for stretching and warming up.

About instrument size: Two of my fiddles feel a tad bigger in my hand than the third instrument does. Yet, with my size M hand, I can still do all the stretches and reaches I need to.

Helen Harvey

December 26, 2011 at 03:52 PM · @Henry-

so you're just fingering the top double-stop and sliding down and back up again?

@ anyone: Is that 'kosher' or should they be fingered separately?

I was trying to do 2+4, 1+3, 2+4, maybe I am making it harder than it should be. ?

Diane Allen

December 26, 2011 at 04:09 PM · I have a small violin that is bigger than a 7/8ths and it made a world of difference for me! The shortened string length made it possible for me to play a lot of things and not stress out my left hand.

7/8ths are a strange breed. I've helped a number of my students shop for that size and we never could justify buying one. We found that for the price of a 7/8th violin we could spend less and find a full size that sounded better. But to find that smaller full size...

I like the other ideas presented here about practicing. But I'd also keep your eyes and ears open for a smaller instrument.

One more thing about smaller instruments. They can be small in all different ways. Thinner necks, narrower shoulders, shorter string lengths...

Smiles! Diane

Henry Butcher.

December 26, 2011 at 11:01 PM · 'kosher'? I am self taught,I play it like a gypsy, I prefer it to not be 'kosher'.

The melody line is....C,B,C, both notes played with the 3rd finger. The lower notes of the double stop are E,D#,E played with the 2nd finger, thus the double stop of a minor 6th which slides down and up with a wrist movement.

The same is executed in first position with the melody notes....A, G#, A. Then back to 3rd position for the melody notes F, E, F.

Now I finger the double stop with 2 and 1 for the melody B, A#, B, then to 1st position for G, F#, G and back to 3rd position for E, D#, E.

I change the fingering to 3 and 2 for G, F#, G in 1st position.

This sounds good to me, I like shifting, why make it harder?

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