Why good young players go to Juilliard pre college

November 15, 2011 at 03:34 PM · it is like asking why good students tend to gravitate toward harvard, yale, princeton from all over...probably for many good reasons:)

there is a smart v.com poster here whose fine musician daughter is currently in juilliard college, having been to its pre- college if i am not mistaken. she is always a good and reliable source of this type of information so hopefully she will see this post and chime in, the honorable mrs smith:)

i understand they have done a lot of commute, but not as far as from DC, oh my. but i have heard kids coming down for the weekend from canada, haha.

i will just say one thing. my kid's second teacher had ambivalent feelings toward a famous music school, lets not name it out of courtesy:)

he had sent several students there and he felt that unless you are considered a star pupil, you may not get the attention he thought they should have got. know what i mean?

on the other hand, he thought that the environment is tough to beat. you immerse yourself in different facets of music education that a local town cannot emulate.

if my kid were serious about music, i would have to stop complaining of hassles and drive her there or somewhere on a weekly basis. no other choice, really.

so, peabody does not carry the same clout huh?

November 16, 2011 at 01:37 AM · Thank you for your comments. Peabody does have a prep school. I assume Peabody prep is good. But Juilliard Prep has attracted the top kids from the world. I wonder people go for its fame or the program?

November 16, 2011 at 12:35 PM · my feeling is that when dorothy delay was there back then, many people might have gone to her for both learning and simply for having her as a teacher:) all said and done, prestige plays a big part in many people's mindsets. to them, to become the best means to mingle with the best.

since your kid is quite young, one consideration is whether going to juilliard right now is really superior to having local lessons with the current teacher who i assume is no slouch. you may need to do some more leg work to match the size of the fish to the size of the pond smartly.

hate to sound like a fatalist, but i think as much as we parents try to steer them into the direction we see fit, how they develop down the road is very uncertain from the current perspective. it depends very much on the chinese words: ji yu.

November 16, 2011 at 01:42 PM · My feeling is that if nobody is sure whether she is serious, Juilliard Pre-College is a bad place to try to find out. First there is the time and money you will spend traveling a great distance. Then there are the expectations. When you say she is "kind of advanced" that could mean different things, but Juilliard and similar places attract prodigies -- one alum is Sarah Chang, who had recorded all the Paganini Caprices and soloed with two of the best American orchestras at the age of 9. Not that every case will be quite that dramatic (well, I went to one other 'prestigious' program where an eight-year-old girl played in a masterclass and played to such perfection that the clinician was speechless). Now, a lot of us are not prodigies and have fulfilling lives and careers in music, *but* if she gets around prodigies too early and too exclusively she may feel the gulf is so enormous that there is no point.

Of course, we still want her to be inspired. I second the vote for staying with a local program -- for now, anyway; they do accept students all the way through high school -- with a less stratospheric cohort that will still challenge her (I have to imagine that in the DC area, there is some program connected with the National Symphony!). The social aspect is important: playing music with friends is one of the great joys out there. Take her to concerts, not just of great violinists either but great musicians, whoever they may be.

November 16, 2011 at 02:50 PM · Ow, my ears are burning! Yes, I saw families commuting to the precollege from as far away as San Diego, Texas, Washington STATE and (by car because of a bass player) from Ann Arbor. Commuting from the DC area would be not be considered unusual. Is it worth it? Who can say? For sure, if you live in or near Manhattan, but faced with all that driving, if I were you I'd try Peabody first. They have excellent teachers and you will spare your sanity. Imagine how exhausted you and your child will be from all that commuting. Most of the families I mentioned above either moved to NYC after the first year, or gave up. All of that travel-- time in the car, train, plane, is time away from childhood. My daughter and I went up to NYC from Philadelphia for two years, but we waited until the end of high school to start that commitment. And we were much closer (100 miles) than DC.

November 16, 2011 at 03:17 PM · Seems to me that you want the following:

(1) Top-drawer individual instruction for your child. Someone who has coached other amazing students to stardom and who will build your child's technique and repertoire, and nurture her musical development overall. A saintly guru.

(2) Peers, including some her own age, that will be competitive with her (perhaps even some who are superior) and help motivate her to higher levels.

(3) Opportunities to perform as a soloist, in chamber groups, and perhaps in an orchestra, again preferably with other outstanding kids her own age, and to receive professional feedback especially on the solo performances.

(4) A safe place where the rest of the child's education and development can flourish too, and where she can be genuinely happy.

What that will take is a program with critical mass in the pre-college area. Sounds like you've got some research to do. We've all heard of ridiculously talented youngsters who went to a top conservatory at the age of 7 or whatever, but the point is well taken that the conservatory will flood its care and affection on that Very Special Child and not necessarily on every child who enters its doors. And I agree with E. that all of that travel time is time away from being human, and frankly I don't see how anyone can afford that.

November 16, 2011 at 10:48 PM · Great post, Paul.

November 16, 2011 at 11:04 PM · I think that if your child wishes to go to the Pre-college division, it might be worth looking into, but first look around to see if there are any closer pre college divisions (I think Peabody is in Maryland). Just rember that not all the stars come out of Juilliard, and you dont neccessicarly need Juilliard to be and sound the best you can be.

November 16, 2011 at 11:08 PM · One of the reasons that people send their kids to Juilliard Pre-college has less to do with the quality of the lessons and more to do with the opportunity to develop relationships with faculty with the anticipation that admittance to the regular college will be more likely.

November 17, 2011 at 04:19 AM · Scott is correct, but it should be noted that not all of the Pre-College faculty is on faculty at the college. Also, Juilliard college auditions are before a faculty panel, all of whom have equal voting power. A teacher may rate your audition highly (because that teacher wants you) and might conceivably even rate competing students lower (to ensure admissions of his/her own favorites) but that vote is still only one vote on a panel of many. Nothing is guaranteed, and it is not uncommon for Pre-College students to be denied admission to the college. It is also not uncommon for Pre-College students to choose to go on to other conservatories, even if they are admitted to the college. Or to leave music altogether.

November 17, 2011 at 01:41 PM · i am going to interject in another direction and offer something else for consideration.

about a year ago, the all-seeing me stuck my neck out with this thread by pronouncing this little one a prodigy and had received some eggs thrown my way:) i have to assume that the op--if she/he has paid attention to youtube violin kids--would recognize this kid. http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=17601

i do not know this kid/family, but from watching the videos, i understand that she is currently in juilliard pre-college.

imo, this kid is in the right place.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mercedescheung1#p/f/1/enwmSlHHI3w

ps. she has an interesting way with her bowing, thus her sound. i haven't quite figured out if that is a trademark to further develop...

November 17, 2011 at 02:03 PM · and then there is this kid, from taiwan. as a kid, his parents were disturbed that the kid could not even sing the birthday song in tune, apparently bad enough that his parents were concerned enough to send him to be medically evaluated:)

to help his "intonation deficiency", in addn to listening to B day song tape 100 times per day, his parents started him on the violin as therapy, not to get ahead like the rest of the asian gang:), just to play around to improving his ears. soon he realized that he could play well without trying very hard (and able to sing B day song better). one thing lead to another, he ended up in curtis and with the help of a rich guy in taiwan, he entered some intl competitions and placed well with a rather famous strad. it does sound pretty sweet that many top tier instruments are at his disposal.

this is a 6 part series interview conducted in chinese by a taiwan program. i don't really care for the interviewer much, but the op may find some value in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv14DCVCsNw&feature=related

November 17, 2011 at 03:02 PM · Thank you all for all the inputs. My daughter was said being very good in music study. But I always feel being a professional musician is too challenging and less rewarding comparing to the efforts. She has been with the best teachers and we tried our best to support her. She is going to be 10 yrs soon, I thought if I need to make a decision either continue to stimulate her interest in violin study, or slow down a little to prevent her from loving it too much. She will be in middle school next year, we either focus on music, or on academic. There are lots of choices in front of us which makes me wonder which way to pick. I will remember what Paul has suggested. Thank you all

November 17, 2011 at 06:04 PM · Is it really necessary to choose between academics and music at this point? As a parent in a similar position, I cannot bear the thought of closing any doors. Who knows what the future will bring? I strive to keep all options open for my 11-year-old daughter.

I also believe that there is more than one path to any destination, and plenty of talented young musicians go on to attend top conservatories without ever spending a single day at Juilliard pre-college. It is undoubtedly an excellent program, but there are great teachers and great programs in many locations. Why not try something closer to home first?

November 17, 2011 at 06:43 PM · "I wonder if people go for its fame or the program."

Excellent question. A good argument could be made that making contacts is the best reason to go to Harvard, or to Juilliard. Do the big names on the faculty actually teach undergrads, much less pre-college? Usually not. The contacts you make could end up being very valuable, but the teaching quality may not be that much diffferent than what you could find much closer to home. A nine-year-old isn't in the position to use contacts anyway. See how things look when she is 12 or 15.

November 17, 2011 at 07:01 PM · All the real movers and shakers either dropped out of Harvard, or never went to begin with. Same with music. Where did Paul McCartney go to school? Keith Richards? B.B. King? Chuck Berry? Ralph Stanley, Bill Monroe, Bob Wills? Lady Gaga? Freddy Mercury? Oswald Osborne? Zakk Wylde? Bruce Springsteen? Lightning Hopkins? Marvin Gaye? James Taylor? Dionne Warwick? Kenny Baker? Vassar Clements.... So why does the education required for orchestral positions cost the most, and have a predictably tepid payoff? Maybe once upon a time it was a relatively safe bet that you would get a good job with your education. Not any longer...

November 17, 2011 at 07:51 PM · And then there's the phenomenon of schools taking in plenty of mediocre students who can pay full freight in order to help pay for scholarships for the small number the school desperately wants who are dependent on financial aid.

November 17, 2011 at 09:22 PM · Ahem, Julliard doesn't take any mediocre students.

Curtis doesn't, either. Heck, they are 100% free so there is none of that rich dilletante incentive anyway.

Peabody didn't take me when I was a kid. Therefore they don't take rich dilletantes, neither.

November 17, 2011 at 09:23 PM · >>Do the big names on the faculty actually teach undergrads, much less pre-college? Usually not.<<

Actually, this isn't true. The big names on the faculty do take small fry. Not all of them do, but some do. My daughter is doing a split studio at Juilliard this year. In one of her studio classes there are children mixed in with the undergraduates and grad students. There is complete mutual respect.

I'm not advocating that everyone go to Juilliard Pre-College, but it's important to get the facts right.

>>And then there's the phenomenon of schools taking in plenty of mediocre students who can pay full freight in order to help pay for scholarships for the small number the school desperately wants who are dependent on financial aid.<<

I'm sure this is true in some institutions, but Juilliard Pre-College is a pretty tough admission standard. Sometimes a student, admitted at 10 or so, turns out not to to progress as much as his/her peers so that by age 17 he or she is not as advanced as the rest of the graduation class, but I doubt you will find that Juilliard Pre-College is admitting mediocre students for the tuition money-- they don't have to.

Some of the precollege teachers do not teach in the college. Some are TAs in the college, and some have studios in the college. You can check this fact easily by examining the faculty lists for the college and precollege.

Again, I'm not saying that you cannot get a wonderful pre-college music education closer to home.