Limits in Interpretaion/Ornamentation/Embellishments

August 15, 2011 at 07:52 PM ·

I've found that, because so much of the solo violin works consists of written-out ornamentatal figuration, those pieces need very little additional embellishment - perhaps just a few trills or other simple graces in the repeats.  I think other baroque composers (particular in the earlier baoque) allow for much more leeway in embellishment, but Bach was well known even in his own time for how explicit his notation was. 

I think a performer should try to embellish so as to enhance the music, add something colorful or surprising, but always keep the underlying structure in view.  You should never obscure the framework given by the composer.  Also, I think that the primary thing is to express the meaning of the phrase, and that comes through articulation and the bow.  Only after that should you add ornamentation.

August 16, 2011 at 07:15 PM ·

I see what you mean about Bach's solo violin works being embellished enough - my embellishments amount to nothing more than the occasional little trill or mordant. But I suppose the question was more general really - was it or is it done to add embellishments, or is it frowned upon by purists? If not, could this principle be applied to later composers' works and where does one draw the limit?

August 16, 2011 at 07:59 PM ·

I believe that Monica Huggetts' recording of the solo Bach has ornamentation not written out in the sheet music/manuscript.  You might try listening to that and see what she does.

August 16, 2011 at 08:26 PM ·

 Sacha, there are books from the same period that Bach was composing that offer guidelines for the player who wants to be historically accurate.  Some violinists make such things their bible! others pretty much ignore them.

A fiddler has a better chance of playing Bach with the improvisational quality that so much Baroque music grew from than many classically trained musicians.  The latter will be quick to tell you which trills begin from above, which from the note, or whether a grace note is accented or an appoggiatura, but many  are mechanical in their execution.  Huggett is a good interpreter. 

You know, in a way, it's like Classical Greek statues: we think of their purity as being white marble, but in their heyday, they were apparently painted brilliantly (rather like Mediterranean folk art), even dressed.  It's largely a matter of taste and tradition.

August 16, 2011 at 08:39 PM ·

I think you're getting some great advice here, and it's nice to see someone discuss this topic. I agree with my good friend Michael for the most part, although I will say that the E major partita (for me) is an exception to this idea that Bach wrote out all his ornamentation. I personally really enjoy adding some nice French ornamentation, in which style this partita was written, to highlight not only the compositional style that he used, but also to acknowledge the fact that he was *very* aware of the trends of the French music world, and often included elements of it in his own music.

I also liked what Marjory said about playing Bach with an "improvisational quality", which lines up with what Michael was also saying. A perfect example is the first movement of the G minor partita. If you distill it down to the simple chords, and then look at all the notes in between as written-out embellishments, your whole musical world changes!

Overall, keeping an open mind and an awareness of the context of Bach's music makes it so much fun to explore this music. I hope you find some answers!

August 17, 2011 at 12:17 AM ·

The more you get away from improvising; dynamics, ornaments , vibrato speeds, bowing's ,different forms of staccato( staccato, spiccato, sautille) , different forms of accents (staccato with mild accent, accent ,colle', martele') the further you get away from creativity and finding your own sound. Record yourself playing Bach and if YOU think you are going to far ,then ease off. Learn from others but make things your own. There are some that are against this,or not open to other so called lesser expressions, and they strive to hold others to traditions. Ignore these types and keep them away from your ideas.

August 17, 2011 at 03:19 AM ·

In Baroque performance there are 3 distinct schools of violin playing. In the French Baroque (before being influenced by the Italian influences) most ornamentation was indicated by the composer. In the German Baroque the composer wrote out much of the ornamentation (see Adagios of Solo Sonata's G and A.) Also, see Bach's ornamentation of an Adagio by Marcello. Ornamentation is evident, but not excessive. In Italian performance florid ornamentation was the norm and expected. A good example of that can be found in an appendix in Cartier's Art du Violin(1803). He reproduces ornamentation of an Adagio by Tartini by a number of different performers. Some did very little ornamentation and others did a huge amount. The Cartier, by the way is available in a facsimile edition.  There is also an edition of Corelli Sonatas which have an unornamented and ornamented (by Corelli) version.

In classical music we see little ornamentation. However, if you look at various works by Mozart one can find examples of ornamentation (written by himself) in recapitulations of various pieces.

In short to learn about ornamentation, look at the sources from the period.