When should I move on to a new Suzuki book?

February 20, 2011 at 07:02 PM ·

I'm not a Suzuki teacher or student but here's my thinking; since the only problem seems to be speed, I would move on. You will continue to improve as you go and you can always go back to see if your speed has improved. IMHO there are more important things than speed.

February 20, 2011 at 08:05 PM ·

 Never. Or at least until the all-powerful Suzuki Inc. decides to re-edit what is the worst edition of music now on the planet. I would never allow a student to learn a Bach, Mozart, or most any other advanced piece from a Suzuki Book. The music is a relic of the lat 19th century, with ridiculous bowings, fingerings, articulations, and dynamics. No decisions are left to the student or teacher. I find it incredible that Suzuki teachers of national or international prominence have not had the gumption to call for much-needed change. Why don't they? Simple. "Suzuki" is one of the very few brands recognized by parents. There is nothing else they know to ask for.

February 20, 2011 at 10:13 PM ·

I agree with Randy. However, I think the question can, and should, be broadened to beyond Suzuki, as in any teaching book or method with progressive studies and pieces. A teacher shouldn't let a pupil progress to the next level until the current study/piece is being played competently (not necessarily at a professional speed, as Randy pointed out). Books of pieces should never be treated solely as a source for acquiring repertoire to the exclusion of acquiring a solid technique in all its aspects.

February 20, 2011 at 11:59 PM ·

We can all pontificate all we want here. Is she taking lessons from a teacher? Or self-teaching?  Very different...

"Not moving on until..." is too prescriptive. Everybody is different. Some people don't respond well to some pieces of music. Music is supposed to be fun. If it is just this endless slog through the "repertoire" then what is the point?

Too much monoculture in these "methods." The real world is much much more interesting and every player advances differently. Music would be really really boring if not.

February 21, 2011 at 06:16 AM · Catherine, though most people think of the books when they think of Suzuki, the method is actually more about the teaching style which is not super-relevant to you since you're self-teaching. So I would say, if the speed is all you're working on, and you can play it at a reasonably musical tempo, go on to something new. I would recommend broqadening way beyong the Suzuki books at this point- the "solos for young violinists" series I mentioned in the other thread has a ton of great literature that starts a bit below where you're at and works up. I would also agree with Scott's suggestion to the extent that as you get further in the Suzuki books, you can find better editions of the same pieces elsewhere. By the way I'm not actually a Suzuki teacher myself, but am pretty familiar with the method and the rep books and respect it for what it does. It is great rep and it's a great technique-building sequence if you know what you're doing with it. You sound like a good learner with a musical ear so I'd say you're probably on the right track!

February 22, 2011 at 09:38 AM · I'm a Suzuki teacher and have taught lessons to violin, viola, cello and double bass students. Most of my students are between the ages of 4 and 18, however I do teach adults as well. My requirements for most students is that they memorize the piece that they are working on before they can move on. Before they memorize a piece it has to be played correctly (rhythm, intonation, dynamics, etc.), then if they are up to the challenge and are able to play the piece memorized AND with the CD/piano accompaniment/etc. then they have successfully "passed" the piece. I remember my teacher doing this with her students when I was growing up, and it is amazing how years later those pieces that you have memorized come back to you as perfectly as when you had learned them! I don't always require my students to be able to play the piece "up to speed" as tempi tend to vary per piece. Allegro is actually a vast marking with the metronome! Through the years I have learned that not all students work this way, but it does seem to work very well with young children. I am teaching many adults that also do not have a problem with this. If you are learning using a "strict" Suzuki method then memorization is highly emphasized. Group lessons, recitals and performances are always done without a scrap of sheet music in sight.

February 22, 2011 at 11:34 PM ·

Hi, Caroline, here is another adult student in Suzuki book 4...

To answer your question, I would first ask "Can you still get things out of the pieces in the current book?" and "Are you bored-to-death with the current book?" If the answer to the former is "yes," then it might be worthwhile to stay on the current book a little longer. However, if the latter is also "yes," then you should move on.

I believe these are the criteria my teacher uses in my case - she is a Suzuki teacher. She does not require me to play at the recording tempo before moving on to the next piece. However, like Karis, she does require me to play with good intonation, correct rhythm, bowing, phrasing, articulation, dynamics, etc. And yes, each piece must be memorized! After that, she would keep me on the piece to get it more polished and "make it more interesting" until she is convinced that I have either gotten the most out of it or I have become too sick of it. Currently I'm also cycling through one old Book 4 piece per week. She wants me to continue to polish them and be able to play them from memory at any time. 

You did not mention whether you play other things beside Suzuki pieces. I agree with Laurie in the thread you linked - "Suzuki books alone are a bit of a starvation diet." The Suzuki repertoire is only a fraction of what my teacher has me work on - my weekly regimen also includes: a 3-oct. scale, arpeggio, etudes from Kayser and Trott's "Melodious Double-Stops," one or two pieces from "Solos for Young Violinists," vibrato exercise, and sometimes bowing exercises. In addition to developing technique, you are less likely to burn out if you have more variety to work on than just the Suzuki pieces.

BTW, please come join us at the Adult Starters - Violin/Fiddle facebook group - lots of Book 4/5 v.comers there. It's great to be able to talk to people who can appreciate your triumphs and setbacks as an adult starter.

February 22, 2011 at 11:38 PM ·

The sooner you try to play anything you happen to like--off the radio or what have you, the better.

February 23, 2011 at 12:08 AM ·

 Kathyrn is correct.  "Suzuki" is not a set of books, it's an approach to teaching.

Each piece is designed to teach a certain technique.  If you were my student, you would not move on until the technique is mastered.  For example, Lightly Row (song after Twinkle) is meant to teach moving your second finger individually.  Easy for someone who has been playing for awhile, difficult for a beginner.

February 24, 2011 at 01:50 PM ·

Thank you all for the input.

Besides Suzuki, I work on scales and Kreutzer (I'm working on Kreutzer 2, which I'm also  *speeding up*. My "frutration" (if any) is because I get the impression that's all I'm doing *speeding up*, instead of learning new things.

In parallel, I'm working on pieces I like (tangos and milongas, mostly). I play them by ear (and I write the music in my head, sometimes on paper).

I can't memorize all those pieces. I read pretty fast and I memorize the fast passages (when my eyes can't see as fast as my fingers can move), but the rest of the piece I read as I play. I experience great pleasure of reading music and it is part of the fun for me. I like to see the written notes, just as much as I love to see flowers and the sun rising (or setting).

I'm doing an extra month, or two on book 4, then I'll move on. And I'm still begging for a teacher who'd take me. I had another one over the phone who said he'd teach me... for 250 euros/30 min! I think that's pretty abusive (and I can't afford it anyway, not at such fee). I've also found someone who'd teach me through Skype. But I want somebody in front of me, in the same room.

February 24, 2011 at 03:13 PM ·

I really agree with all the other comments, especially the criteria Joyce mentioned (and yes, please come join us on FB!).

The only other thought I had - and maybe this was discussed on the other thread - is, have you recorded yourself? In absence of a teacher, maybe this would help you identify any areas that need work. I record myself regularly and it's amazing what I DON'T hear while playing. I thought maybe this could be a final test for moving forward with the pieces/books - perhaps another way to measure yourself and determine readiness to move on.

Good luck! I'm deep in battle with some tempo issues in Book 4!

February 24, 2011 at 05:04 PM ·

"(and yes, please come join us on FB!)"

Facebook is obnoxious.

I suppose it is inevitable. All the independent interesting websites will all go fallow and everyone will "run to FB". 

Except me. I'll stand here and say,  "Echo....echo...echo..."

February 24, 2011 at 06:51 PM ·

Bill, I can't imagine how a small Facebook page dedicated to adults trapped in Suzuki Book 4 is in any way a 'threat' to a powerhouse of a site like Violinist.com. It is simply another supportive place for us to discuss our specific set of issues.

(edited for possibly offensive remark)

February 25, 2011 at 01:16 PM ·

Dear Ophelia,

I've recorded myself. I was amazed to realize I do play in tune (as far as my ears can go, but, who knows, I'm maybe ear-blind and I'm blissfully unaware!). I liked what I've heard. Not because it was perfect, but because it was beautiful. I thought I'd sound like a sick cat. Having said that, I've found recording myself a very difficult  thing to do.

I don't have the equipment, so, I've actually filmed myself with my netbook. Then I get strange sounds (not enough so that I can't hear me, but sometimes it is like a double stop, like a whistle in parallel with the violin). And it is time consuming, because I get so nervous, like there is an audience watching! I've made string-crossings mistakes I don't do when I'm calmer (nobody around and no recording in progress).

I've visited the facebook page, but I need to get a facebook account. I don't usually go to these sites, but it'd be nice to be part of a *community* of adult learners.

February 25, 2011 at 02:16 PM ·

Facebook is evil and there is no way to get off of it.

February 25, 2011 at 02:53 PM ·

Caroline, 250 Euros for half an hour? was this Maxim Vengerov who was quoting you??? LOL (sorry not laughing at you but AT ME as I am on the floor in a fit and chocking over that price you've been quoted!)