Sonata Sequence?
We all know of the different sequences that have been suggested for etudes (e.g., Galamian) and concertos (DeLay); however, I was wondering if there was something similar for sonatas and other violin/piano works. For those individuals, like me, for whom music isn't our profession, our best bet for a public performance is with sonatas and other such works. Considering the quantity of such works, a little guidance would be helpful (although all such sequences have their weaknesses of course). Does anyone know of such a thing?
Replies (9)
Buri:
Thanks for your response. I've always heard of the ASTA syllabus, but have never really looked at it because none of my teachers in school or any of my teacher friends now has ever mentioned it. I wasn't sure how "accepted" it was. I also found the absence of Beethoven odd. I have been thinking of revisiting the Handel sonatas. I learned two or three of them in middle school using the romanticized Auer edition, but I recently bought the Barenreiter edition. They truly are nice works and I find it a shame they’re often dismissed as “student” works. I also found it interesting that the Brahms sonatas are considered more “difficult” than the Franck – it my opinion the Franck is more technically challenging.
I have never seen a list of sonatas presented to suggest some sort of order of learning. It is a shame there isn't one, as many students of the violin might find it useful. Most players and teachers have a clear idea of where things fit in with each other (i.e. which Bach/Mozart/Beethoven to tackle first) and which of the romantic works are easier/harder than others.
Just to expand on one comment
"I have been thinking of revisiting the Handel sonatas. I learned two or three of them in middle school using the romanticized Auer edition, but I recently bought the Barenreiter edition. They truly are nice works and I find it a shame they’re often dismissed as “student” works"
I could not agree with this more. The Handel sonatas are now available in a non-romanticised edition and are truly worth lots of study. I play 2 or 3 quite regularly, as I do Corelli and the accompanied Bach sonatas. Style/interpretation is everything when looking at these pieces, not to deliberately build a baroque style (leave that to experts) but to discover how to subtly blend the use of bow strokes, vibrato, position work, shifting etc.
If you wish to discuss possible routes into the great Romantic sonatas, I'm sure you would get some tips asking on here.
@Wayne: Even if Franck appears to be more technically challenging, the musical content of Brahms is quite some more demanding. While Franck is quite clear in musicality (for me at least), Brahms second sonata (A major), that looks so easy at the first sight, created so much frustration in the initial stages. It is so difficult to make it beautiful and giving it sense! The musical difficulty of Brahms sonatas is sometimes unbelievable.
Greetings,
David, glad you are also plugging the Handel sonatas. Clearly anyone who thinks they are`studnet works` hasn`t done their homework if Auer demands at least three before one cna be classified as a musician. One of my favorite stories from this site is by the now gone and much missed Emil Chussodovsky who relates how he wa salready well establsihed as a young soloist at Julliard and went to a teacher who forced him to study the Handel D major. I no oonger recall exactly what Emil said but it wa ssomethign sabout having to really listen to himself for the first time. All the great players of the 20c played Handel right until the end. The last Milstein performanc eof the a major is so moving it represnet for me the one soundbite of violin sound I would like to hear as I snuff it.
The young Japanes ewhizz kids who come to me refuse to play Handel, Viooti and the like. They just carry on producing the same virtuouso technique with pressy sound for years until either the penny drops or they become housewives.
Cheer,s
Buri
Speaking of what Buri said about some of his students: has anybody ever seen a child prodigy performing Brahms sonatas?
Lena - what a great question!
didn't the 13 year old violinist (sorry, can't remember his name) in the final of this years BBC Young Musician play a Brahms sonata in the semi final?
We don't all know the sequence of what concerto to study when. I really would like a list!
I don't currently have a teacher and am not looking for one, but would like a list!
Thanks
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January 10, 2010 at 04:54 AM ·
Greetings,
it`s an interesting question. To be honest I don`t really like the idea of `sequencing repertoire, at least when it@s taken to a strong degree. There are certain situations that `apparently` require some kind of sequence such as the one I was exposed to at the Royal College of Music in which the first year exam required Bach, the 2nd Mozart and the third Romantic. It`s the kind of approach that creates a mindset of levels of difficulty which can be very misleading. For the private teacher it helps to have a rough idea of the supposed degree of dififculty of cocnerttos but has, in my opinion, the effect of causing one to see music in terms of tehcncila acomplishmentwhile devaluing the musical content. The ther issue is that it straightjackets teachers into a certain way of teaching rather than being flexible about what the students needs are at a given moment. Sometimes this means a major jump (Wienaiwski was the first major cocnerto I studied- Mozart was more difficult for me), sometimes something at the same level or even soemthing supposedly easier that may be useful at a given moment. Its getting harder and harder to persuade youngsters who are knocking off the Mendelssohn that Auers advice aout playing at least three of the Handel sonatas was actually technical as well as musical.....
Caveat aside one can get this kind of information in a fairly sensible sequence fro either the free down load (Truncated version) or the full list of the American String Teacer`s Assocaiation String Syllabus.
For soatas:
Duvall sonata inG
Dvorak Sonatina op 100
Handel sonata in f
Martinu Sonatina (Highly recommended by me!)
Polnauer Frederick (ed) Baroque Music for violin Corelli, Vivaldi, Veracini, Teleman, Albinoni, Handel etc.
More advanced.
Corelli Sonatas.
Leclair.
Tartini (some of the Tartini are superb-Buri)
Handel-All sonatas.
Haydn
Mozart sonatas vol 1.
Schubert Sonatinas (These are full blown cocnert works as are the big Handels)
Tartinin sonata in g op1 no 10.
High level (??????)
Bach sonatas for violin and cembalo
Leclair- vol 1and 2.
Mozart vol 1and2
Franck
Grieg no 3 in c (isnt that c minor? the list may be wrong...)
Paginin sonata no 12 in e
Rodgers sonata
Schumann sonata no 1 in a
Tartinini Devil@s Trill
Most advanced (dubious- Buri)
Amy Beach
Blackwood.
Brahms
Copland
Corigliano
Cowell
Debussy
Davic Diamond
Faure (not convinced)
Roy Harris
Paul Hindemith (not entertained)
Ives (should be played more)
Perle
Persichetti
Piston
Poulenc (despite Neveus advocacy- not a greta work. Poulenc didn`t like it much either...)
Prokofiev no1 and 2
Ravel (veyr diffiuclt)
Couldn`t find the Saint seans at a glance. Those are probably in the last group. I may have missed it but there didn`t seem to be any references to the Beethoven sonatas. I wonder if that was because the are piano and violin, ? but thta would be nonsense. The first Beethoven to tackle is not usually, in my opinion`Spring.` Much healthier to get number one under your belt first. The Elgar is also a major work in my opnion. Check out Vengerovs recording.
Cheers,
Buri
Ta