So... how do you play the détaché?

September 30, 2009 at 06:10 PM ·

Détaché does not mean "detached."  It simply means a change of bow, without any articulation.  Détaché is in French what is called a "false friend"; it looks like an English word (remember that about 80% of the words in French are also in English), but is not at all the same thing. Détaché simply means separate bows.

Another example of a "false friend" is the verb in French, demand. If you say, "Je demande" you only say I ask, not I demand...which has been known to play havoc with diplomatic translations!

September 30, 2009 at 08:55 PM ·

:) Alors je te demande, c'est quoi la vrai significance de detache, dans la sens technique, au context de violon? :)

Actually, this is I think I didn't stay in France to live.... it would take years (light years) to really appreciate the nuances of the language :)

So... before anyone comments on light years being a measure of distance, my brother is a physicist, just I try never to understand when he talks about teleporting small molecules..

Anyway, I think I just found out, that I did not move my whole arm upways in the upbow.. sort of squeezes the chest if the arm is not raised simultaneously, and gradually. Now I understand how all these gypsies in the restaurants play so relaxed...

September 30, 2009 at 11:52 PM ·

 I think that Connie is right to point out that detache doesn't carry the English meaning of the word "detached", and to get a full-bodied, even, bow stroke without dips in the sound is not easy and something that you see Zukerman is primarily concerned with in the masterclasses I have seen.

Everyone would teach it in a different way depending on the school or style of bowing. Varga taught it by keeping the upper arm still (the shoulder joint doesn't move) and concentrating on a "pumping" action of the lower arm coming from the elbow with a mirror image like bend of the wrist with the centre of the stroke being where the elbow joint forms a right angle. From experience too much use of the fingers; not bending the wrist sufficiently at the bottom of the stroke combined with too high a wrist position in holding the bow, are the usual culprits.  It is easy to use an imaginary "pump" with the right arm if it is not encumbered with holding a stick of wood at the angle with which we hold the bow!  But I am sure there are as many ways of teaching detache as there are violins!  Good luck with your endless search for the perfect detache!

October 1, 2009 at 12:42 AM ·

Greetings,

Martin , it@s a fascinating issue.  The last Varga student I spoke to was D`Angeli who is leading the La Scala Opera Orchestra. Fantastic player. Typical of a Varga protegee his use of wrist -looks- utterly excessive to me but the result is fabtastic.  I can`t do it or teach it at all.  

One of the most common mistakes I see even in quite high level player sis collapsing the wrist at the point which immediately causes a loss of tone.

Flesch seems to take credit for exercising the right hand fingers by playing a small short stoke using only fingers as a daily exercise. As he pointed out later in his writings ,  he made a mistake,  or rather the exercise was misinterpreted and excessive,  very conscious  finger action wass used by many players to the detriment of the bow change.  I have studnets exercise the right hand fingers a lot but when playing the amount of movement is purely in response to the bigger movements.

Cheers,

Buri

October 1, 2009 at 02:05 AM ·

This is how I teach it:

Détaché (not slurred)

1. Performed in the upper part of the bow.

2. Place the bow on the string so your arm forms a right angle at the elbow—this is your “middle of the bow“ position.

3. Fingers are in “up bow” position or the “inclined” position (pressure on first and second fingers).

4. The pressure is not released, and the bow strokes should be connected, not detached as the name of this stroke seems to indicate.

5. Make sure your elbow opens up freely.

6. To illustrate to the student the proper way to apply pressure (from the forearm only, and using a motion similar to turning a door knob), hold the tip of the student’s bow, and have him push you down to the string.

7. Common defects in playing détaché include a. accenting then releasing the pressure, b. stopping between bow strokes. c. the bow sliding towards the fingerboard on the down bow. d. The wrist collapsing upon approaching the tip of the bow, causing a decrease in pressure. The release of pressure can be corrected by having the student play with only the thumb and first finger holding the bow. To correct the "fingerboard slide" instruct the student to reach "out" on the down bow stroke, allowing the elbow to open like a hinge; and move the wrist "in" towards his nose on the up stroke. To ensure the student has a "free" elbow, have him move his forearm back and forth  without the bow, then recreate the same type of motion with bow in hand.

October 2, 2009 at 12:38 PM ·

Hello, thanks for the responses!

I am primarily concerned about whether the detache stroke (ok, not detached stroke :) is done similarly as a long bow motion, just smaller scales, or is it a different movement, like that using mostly forearm, or wrist, fingers.. I think I received some valuable insights, so I can try to put it together for myself..

Bruce, I can't really appreciate what you wrote, primarily because I try never to use pressure in the sens of pressing with the fingers down, or with the forearm. In my opinion (and I see the same problem with the cello player in my band) this results in way too much tension..  but anyway, thanks for your reply!