Rosin: matching it to strings, shelf life and experimenting with brands

September 29, 2009 at 11:48 PM ·

I have heard that rosin should be replaced once a year, but I have never seen a a written expiry date on a cake of rosin.  Some of what I've read about rosin expiring comes form pirastro.com, so maybe that's a scheme trying to get people to buy more rosin.  However, I had a cake of Kaplan rosin for about a year and a half and it worked perfectly well...until it smashed. :(

Right now I am using Pirastro Goldflex and it is a drier rosin.  It tends to have a lot of dust but provides good grip.  I think when using this rosin I have to re-rosin my bow more frequently.  Maybe this is because of all the xtra dust that comes off?

Anyways, just my little input!

Hanna ^.^

September 30, 2009 at 12:26 AM ·

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=320518

Personally, I have found Pirastro Golddflex to be the only rosin I have ever been sensitive to. Although it had good sound, it caused my eyes to water (seriously) when used for violin or viola. It was OK on cello. And, as you said, it makes a lot of dust on the instrument.

The best rosins I have ever used have been from Liebenzeller, Tartini/Andrea, and Baker - with experience gained in that chronological order. My experience with these include all the Baker, all the Tartini, all the Andrea, and about 10 of the Liebenzeller formulations.  In my opinion, none of the other several dozen rosins (I still  have in my rosin drawer - and extra rosin box) ever came close to these. For sound quality I pick Baker, for sustaining cello tone during a long session, Tartini/Andrea may have a slight edge, but I have not had that much chance to use my new Baker rosins under the same long chamber music sessions. Liebenzellers were very good (I liked Gold and Pyrite best, IV for cello and III for violin/viola). Liebenzeller Copper is very good for beginners, a very forgiving rosin, but doesn't hold up to high bow velocity. Liebenzeller Tin and Silver semed to emphasize higher overtones more.

The Baker Vuillaume-Citron rosin allows me to do play cello with less bow pressure and with cleaner string response in the 2nd - 3rd octave up the strings. On violin it gives a very warm and golden tone. The original Baker has more grip (for me) and brings out more ove the overtones - good for very high orchestral violin playing (so you can hear yourself in Mahler and Shostakovich cacaphony).

For a cellist, one of the critical factors (in addition to sufficient grippiness - at the right time) is avoidance of a harshness in tone after a certain period of continuous playing. I really don't know what causes it, but I think it is due to melting and re-solidification of the rosin on the string that results in a less than optimal sliding-friction coefficient (i.e., it gets too sticky). It is easily (and temporarily) curable by re-rosining the bow (even though it has plenty of rosin), cleaning the strings, or (best of all) both. Since cleaning the strings in the middle of a performance can be a noisy thing, re-rosining may be the best choice. I think a (relatively) thick buildup of rosin on the strings will result in more melting of the rosin (since a lower thermal conductivity of rosin material than of string material might cause more heat to collect at the bowing interface of the sliding rosin surfaces (bow hair and string surface). The solidified "rosin melt" will not have the same particle-slip behavior as fine particles on freshly rosined bow hair and needs to be removed or "disguised."

I have not had this kind of rosin problem with violin playing (which I have done much more of over the past 70 years).  Viola problems are intermediate.

Andy

September 30, 2009 at 09:45 AM ·

I've been happy as a clam with Dominant rosin and Dominant strings with Jarger/Goldbrokat Es for as long as I can remember!

I've always been curious about these rosin threads. I'm sure that Rosin does change your sound a bit, but as far as calling it "the cheapest way to alter your sound" - well, I'm a bit skeptical. I'll bet you good money that I could take a few new, identical bows - - Rosin them up with all sorts of different rosins .. dark.. light.. cello rosin... some white chalkboard chalk (lol) - - and I'll bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference as a listener. I mean, let's be straight here - the result is a vibrating string. Those strings are going to vibrate and sound very similar regardless of the compound that you are using to create friction. I think changing your rosin is mostly about feel and playability. I will agree that some difference will exist in the sound, but are you really prepared to take this Coke vs. Pepsi challenge? Lol - bad example... they taste very different! =)

That's my two cents on the subject, and I know a lot of you will disagree. I'm absolutely aware that there are major differences between rosins, but I will hold firm in asserting that this is a "feel" issue and much less a "sound" issue; though, I'm sure the dynamics are effected somewhat.

=)

September 30, 2009 at 06:26 PM ·

With all due respect, I'm not so sure I agree with Luke's post above.  When I switched from Tartini to Baker's Original I thought I noted a clear difference in sound, not just feel, especially on the E string.  In fact the E (Jargar forte) sounds like an entirely different string (at least up close - I haven't made comparison recordings at a distance).  Maybe I'm hallucinating, but maybe not?

September 30, 2009 at 07:44 PM ·

I also don't agree with luke's post.

" I'll bet you good money that I could take a few new, identical bows - - Rosin them up with all sorts of different rosins .. dark.. light.. cello rosin... some white chalkboard chalk (lol) - - and I'll bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference as a listener."

Even if the bows seem identical they may not be to different people. You have to try rosin on the same bow IMO to either notice a difference or no difference. I use Andrea Bang rosin and can notice a better grip and sound compare to salchow but the salchow had a warmer sound. Just try some rosins and see what you like.

October 6, 2009 at 09:05 PM ·

I was skeptical but have found that rosin does make a difference.  I presently prefer the Andrea rosin, but there are probably other good ones.

I am unaware of any technique for selection other than trial and error.

When experimenting with rosins I will try to wipe away some of the old rosin from the bow hair with a clean, dry cloth.  I would not recommend alcohol.  In general, trying a new rosin over a period of several weeks is probably more realistic than trying to compare several of them in one practice session.

The shelf life of rosin is very long.  I've never noted any deterioration due to time.

October 7, 2009 at 07:16 AM ·

Answering to question #2:

This simmer I discovered in a drawer an old cake of rosin I thoght I had lost almost 15 years ago.

It is like new and works perfectly.

October 7, 2009 at 08:17 AM ·

"When experimenting with rosins I will try to wipe away some of the old rosin from the bow hair with a clean, dry cloth.  I would not recommend alcohol."

Unlike Dunlop, I actually do recommend alcohol.

When cleaning bow hair, some people recommend soap and water (no way!) and others recommend denatured (almost pure) alcohol.

I'm cheap. I hate going to hardware stores.

Anyway, I use Vodka. I use plain old 80 proof Seagram's (or whatever I happen to be drinking at the time). I apply the vodka to the bow hair using those brown napkins made from recycled paper. You can liberate them from Starbucks, Whole Foods, Taco Bell, etc. Drop some vodka liberally on the napkin, and make sure it doesn't leak. Fold the napkin and neatly wipe the hair of your bow a couple of times. Throw that napkin out, and grab another. Repeat about 6-10 times.

When you're done cleaning the bow, you'll want to investigate whether clumps of hair have gathered. Luthiers use a fine tooth comb to separate them. I run my thumb through the back (the side you don't play on) of the hair many times in order to separate the hairs, then I wipe them gently once with another bit of alcohol. Do this until the hairs look very uniform. Make sure and wipe both side of the hair with a cloth, in order to remove the oil. This is part of the final step - you'll want to gently wipe the hair on both sides with a dry napkin.

Once you are finished, keep the bow tightened slightly and hang it on a coat hanger. The coat hangers with the little slits on the sides (for ladies' dresses) work best. You can leave the bow hanging like that over night.

Also, don't get the alcohol too close to the frog or the tip. Small bits of wood are in place in those locations, and they keep the bow hair in place. The alcohol can absorb into those little pieces of wood if you get it too close.

I have been using the same bow hair going on 6 years now, and all of my violinist friends think I rehair every 3 months. The trick is knowing exactly what you are doing. You can get very professional results using the method I just outlined, but you can also screw it up.

Why Clean the Bow Hair?

There is a common misconception that bow hair should be cleaned when it gets dirty. My bow hair never gets dirty. I clean the hair when I switch strings.

If you hear people complaining that "Dominant rosin doesn't work with Dominant strings very well," then you can be almost sure that the player has mixed various rosins into their bow hair. Whenever you switch rosins, clean your bow hair. I have played with all of Pirastro's best strings - Tonicas, Eudoxas, Gold Labels, and Obligatos. Pirastros make rosins specifically for each of their strings. Clean your hair, and use the appropriate rosin. The results will always be satisfactory.

Luthiers will clean your bow hair for you! Metzler's, the violin shop that I go to in Glendale, Ca, will clean bow hair for $15. 

How do you choose Rosin?

This is the main thrust of this topic. Your rosin should be chosen based on the type of string you are using. Are you using Synthetic, Gut, Wound Gut, or Steel strings? Does your Synthetic string use Perlon, Nylon, or something else? All of these factors will effect your choice of rosin.

Research your choice, and make sure it is appropriate for your string type; or, just use Pirastro strings. Pirastro's rosins match their strings perfectly. Thomastik Dominant rosin matches with Dominants very well. Pirastro Tonica strings are a great deal, and the rosin that matches them is wonderful.

Experimenting with Rosin Brands

In my opinion, Thomastic or Pirastro should make a string that matches with your violin and sounds good. Then, all you have to do is apply the matching rosin, and poof - magic.

In my experience, people who think that they can "experiment" also don't realize that they have to clean their bows with each new rosin choice. In the end, their bow is just a mish mash of different rosins, and that is why they cannot get a decent result from any particular rosin.

October 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM ·

Last year while travelling in Italy I dropped my rosin on a stone floor and it broke to a million pieces. The little town where I was living was 6 hours from a store that sold rosin, so I carefully rescued one smooth piece and used it until I had a chance to get some more. The only kind I could find in Foggia was an old dusty cake of Larsen rosin.

It was fine and smooth. My tone immediately became more pleasing. I even felt like the responsiveness of my bow improved overnight. Perhaps (probably) my imagination, but now I am an evangelist for Larsen (in the black cloth).