Which MP3 player for sound quality?
Hi,
I've never used an IPOD or the like in my life. However, living in a small space has necessitated me packing up my CDs. Now I want to transfer them to a portable listening device.... but I don't know which ones have the best sound quality. I've heard the IPOD doesn't have as strong of a sound quality.... is this only because of the headphones? How do I know which players offer the best sound? Also, when burning CDs onto the computer, do you burn them at the highest possible quality? Does this make an audible difference? Thanks for any info for this technology challenged violinist!
Replies (19)
In a similar circumstance, I went with a SONY portable CD player that was not much bigger than the disc itself. The headphones were awful. After a trip to the Sennheiser dealer and $400 later, I had a sweet-sounding road kit, which is what I bring when I'm traveling.
You asked whether you would be able to tell the difference between CDs and lower bitrate MP3s playing on an iPod. I am embarrassed to admit that when I took a listening test using the same [piece of music recorded as a standard RedBook CD, a DVD-A (more than twice the bits of a CD), and a 1 bit (very high-end for SACD) format, I had trouble hearing enough improvement going up the scale to warrant the bucks for an upgrade.
I took it to be my age, but then something interesting happened. After listening for a while to the SACD version, I started dropping back to the lower-res versions, and only then did I hear it. I found with time I could even hear the characteristics of the recording microphones at the best resolution, but the difference is very subtle. I suspect that f you are in a dorm room or listening in a moving car, you're probably not going to be able to hear it.
For sound quality, I agree that the ipod is the best thing out there. Rip your CDs using lossless AAC encoding if you care about sound quality. Personally, I can hear the difference between 320 AAC (which is higher quality than your average mp3) and zero compression even on the ipod and a good $50 pair of headphones (Sennheiser PX100) in an office environment. I agree that on a plane, the difference vanishes given the airplane noise but in a reasonably quiet home or office environment, the difference is clearly audible.
For home, if you've got your CD collection ripped into itunes, in addition to having your music on an ipod, you can feed the digital bits from the computer to any stereo receiver that has a digital input and listen to that music over your stereo speakers. I use Sonos for this since it's also got a great easy-to-use wireless controller but there a number of other ways to do this as well.
Hey,
Thanks everyone for your input! I appreciate it all. MD you made one of my violins so I think it's neat to hear from you :).
It turns out a friend of mine was an audiophile and he also directed me to head-fi.org. You're right; it really does offer great info from people who "get it" about sound.
After much searching, it appears the best two they recommended on the forum (compatible with my mac) were Sony and Cowon (particular models tho--your wallet will shrink noticeably). Here's the deal with IPOD; according to my friend, they changed the DAC to something cheaper, so the 4th/5th generation don't have as good of a sound quality. Those of you that like your IPODs--what models do you have? I recently tried the newest Nano (is the 4th gen? I forget...) with good headphones and the sound quality was dreadful! Unless I did something wrong....I ripped the CD at 320 AAC--my friend informed me that unless you have expensive headphones, etc, you really can't hear the difference between that and lossless--maybe that's why it was difficult to hear the difference Robert? Tho, Ray, it's interesting what you say--I guess it really does depend on the headphones--I'll have to look into the pair you mentioned. And... I guess there are *so* many variables that it's difficult to compare MP3 players directly....
Oh btw even the "cheapo" sony model had a great sound (their X line was *amazing* but $)--so I think it's sony for this previously mp3 challenged violinist. So.... this brings me to my next important question:
What Type Of Headphones? It seems this is even *more* important than the MP3 player itself.
I'm interested to know about both the kind that are the best and "geeky" (bulky) and also ones that you can fold up and travel with..... I'd like to avoid earbuds as they're uncomfortable and break easily. So I'd like to find over the ear that are compact and good quality. Thanks for any info, and thanks again for the previous info!
Wow--you have one of my violins. Cool! :-)
Mine's an older iPod which may explain my satisfaction. My first headphones, which I still like as much as any for what they are, are Grado SR80s, one of the best deals for the price, but you have to wear them a lot to build up tough skin on your ears--initially they're not comfortable, but eventually they are. They are open, which means you can only use them in quiet places where you also don't mind making noise for others. I like the Grado sound and have a more expensive pair, but the SR80s really are fine, still.
For commuting, after owning some of the other brands, I like my Etymotic ER4s. Shure, the other big brand, didn't have enough clarity and transparency for me, but were more "friendly" to listen to. Some people find in-ear phones uncomfortable, but you get used to them, and the sound is good and isolation is often useful.
For headphones, an external amp provides a wider dynamic range and more punch and clarity--the amp in players just can't move enough electrons fast enough to do the job--and you will notice the difference. I'd say buy the headphones first, and then when the newness wears off for you, get an amp to freshen up the experience. :-)
I bought an ipod 5.5 generation for my girlfriend as a birthday gift. I've also listened to it sometime and I must say the sound quality is much much better than many other MP3 player. As MD mentioned, the Digital->Analog converter (which in short, soundcard) is very good.
If you pay a visit to http://www.gsmarena.com you'll actually find a lot of comparison of mobile phones and they use ipod/iphone as a benchmark. Similar to sound quality of ipod, the iphone actually double as a high quality mp3 player too! If you look at the graph of the audio test provided by them, ipod/iphone has got a flat frequency respond, low distortion and crosstalk between L/R, so you get an unaltered/uncolored player to start with, and use with your favourite EQ setting as well as headphone.
As a violinist who also a music arranger involved in music productions, I find sound quality of ipod is more than enough for casual listening. I'd recommend those in ear earphones so you can listen the music in full spectrum with minimal environment noise, given that portability is priority. Although I never listen to the sound quality of iphone, I don't see why it's not capable of becoming your next portable player, especially they're now up to 32GB of internal memory which is plenty to store quite a lot of songs.
If you want the full CD quality and able to play them on portable player, simply convert them as native 16bit 44.1khz .wav file which is the same as CD quality. Assumed that every CD is max 700MB, so the ipod classic's 120GB can store up to at least 150 CDs (given that full 120GB is usable, it can store up 160+ CDs). Likewise with iphone 32GB, you can store at least 30 CDs and you still have plenty of space for other stuffs for the iphone.
Elana, I just checked--mine's a 5.5 I do remember when the Classic came out a lot of people were saying it couldn't be any good because. . . . it was new and different. . . and that didn't check out in reality. I'd read a bit more about that before I decided not to buy a new one; there's a lot of misaimed snobbishness in audio, too. . . .
Hi, Elena-- I think your choice of headphones should reflect what you are planning to do or where you will be when you listen. I use Sennheiser 650s. They're a model or two back now, but very neutral and wearable with comfort for hours because they go around the ear. These are open types, which I would recommend because the resonances that build up in the closed type can't be entirely eliminated and will color the sound. My cans (the cool professional word for headphones) are somewhat large and might be considered bulky, but since I use them in the privacy of my office/studio, that's not a problem for me. Neither is the sound being audible outside the earcup, which is actually very minimal unless you are blasting away at a high volume, which, dear lady, as a young player I hope you are *not* doing!
If you decide to go with something small or even earbuds, I highly recommend the products from Etymotic Research. I know Meade Killian, the owner, and he is very dedicated to putting out the best possible product. In fact, some of the better brands are actually using versions of his products.
Hope this helps, and I hope you have many hours of happy listening to full-resolution (:-)) music on your iPod.
Hi,
Thanks again you guys for all the info. MD, I don't doubt you are getting a good sound from your equipment. There are just 2 differences--the big one being, you are using other equipment than just the ipod itself (while I'm using just the ipod by itself)--and the more minor one being, yours is still an older model I think (?) and a different model from the current nano. I guess I am inquiring on two fronts--1) the best setup, regardless of price and 2) the best portable, economical setup not requiring additional equipment. Right now, the 2nd one is important to me because I am broke--in the long run I'll invest better.... that being said, it seems the current sony straight from the box just happens to be ahead of the nano straight from the box, IMO. I played classical music on both and the difference was significant (different headphones, but both pretty good quality). In the long run, if I use different equipment, I may completely change my mind.
RS, yup, I've read about etymotic being considered the best or one of the best for classical music... right now, it's above what I can spend and the portable model most recommended was this earbud (which I'm trying to avoid--I have really small ears and they just don't seem to fit)... in the future I plan to look into it though! I guess for now, with portable, as long as it sounds like a violin and is as good as my 8-year-old cheapo KOSS (over-the-ear, old fashioned non foldup headphones) then it's good enough for me! Oh I've heard of Yuin G2A being good clip-on headphones.... but there seems to be a lack of stores that sell them where I could actually go try it. In general, that's my one complaint--the few stores around here are limited in what they carry, and even more limited in what they let you try. I will try the guitar center.... any other ideas?
I'd like to second what Michael said about the Grado 80 phones, including adjusting to the discomfort. The sound makes it all worthwhile.
I'm expecting my first iPod in a couple of days (Apple Nano, 16GB). I'm looking forward to taking it on the road next week.
I'll definitely look into those headphones, thanks! I've heard good things (something like they're more "sensitive" than others) and best of all is they're not outrageously priced. Is there anywhere I can actually go listen to what the grado sound like? Or at least, a place that offers a 100% refund within a certain time frame, even if the package is opened? Sony has a policy like that--but, they only sell sony products of course. The guitar center by me does not, I don't think, carry that model.... so not sure where to look next. GL with your mp3 player!
For what it's worth, I think my ipod is a 3rd-gen classic - max capacity at the time which was 60 GB. Just a shot in the dark but I wonder if the D/A converters and/or headphone amp on the ipod classic are better than on the ipod nano. That extra size and cost often allows you to build in better performance.
I agree that the Grado SR80's are great headphones for the price and good headphones overall. I use the Sennheiser PX100's even though the Grados likely sound better because the PX100s are a bit more comfortable and they fold up into a very compact package. I use the Senn PX250s on planes. The PX100s are open and the PX250s are closed, not as nice sounding but they're noise-cancelling. I find Sony phones to somewhat overrated for the price. If you know what you're looking for and are willing to order or buy from specialty audio stores instead of buy from big-box stores, you can often do better than Sony for the money. But when you compare Sony to the other stuff on the shelves at a Target or Best Buy, it's pretty good.
And no, it doesn't take really expensive headphones to tell the difference between 320 AAC and lossless on a good recording. It just takes reasonably good headphones like the Grados or PX100s and well-trained ears.
Lots of studies have shown that most people can't hear the difference between high quality mp3 and lossless and I believe them. Personally I think that's because their brain's don't know what to listen for or their high frequency hearing has been damaged. If your brain is used to listening for high frequency content, imaging, crisp detail, etc., I'm confident you'll hear the difference on a good recording through a pair of good but not expensive headphones.
It turns out Grado makes a model specifically for portable players
http://hifiblog.com/past/2006/10/26/igrado-worth-your-money-or-not/
Inasmuch as they're still more than I want to spend for my iPod, I ordered the Koss model mentioned in the same article. I can report back when everything arrives...
Hey, thanks, reviews much appreciated!
Ok, a new complication. I'm on a Macbook. My dap was designed for windows (sigh). The sound quality is amazing, BUT the only easily transferrable file is AAC.
Edited again: apparently it does accept WAV? So... off to experiment again!
Remember too that AAC can be set to lossless compression.
Hmm, it can? Mine seemed to only go to 320. Though maybe it's under a custom setting I missed... I presume it's the same quality as WAV but takes up less space?
I don't have great headphones atm.... but trying WAV and 320 AAC there was just a barely perceptible difference.... almost invisible... almost indistinguishable (I'm just using the DAP and a cheapish pair of phones, nothing else). My feeling is I need more sensitive equipment to get the benefit.... it's heartening to know that with the proper equipment the quality will improve. Thanks for your advice and guidance, much appreciated!
PS The songs that came on the player are from a different genre than classical... but the sounds are clearly deeper and richer, even on this cheap set of cans. I wonder why? Any ideas? Because *my* WAV files don't sound like this! And my CDs sound better in the car--so it's not that I own bad CDs.... I wonder what is missing?
To get 320 AAC, when you set the quality level of the import, you should see a choice called "custom". If you select that, you'll be able to choose 320 AAC. If you want lossless AAC, select import with the "Apple Lossless Encoder" instead of AAC. That'll get you a lossless AAC file (at least on Windows).
Apple lossless encoded files are about 1/2 the size of a WAV file. 320 AAC files are about 1/4 the size of a WAV file.
As for why the preloaded tunes sound so good, if you were the manufacturer of an mp3 player, wouldn't you select tunes to preload on your player that were mixed in a way that they'd sound really good on your player when played through the standard cheap ear buds? I sure would.
- Ray
Aah, you meant apple lossless. That I do have. I wonder.... if I record to that, and then convert it to WAV, would it take up as much room as the original WAV file would have? More things to experiment with I guess! Thanks :).
I have preferred using this style of headphone for listening to my MP3 or computer:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3163592
I've tried various in-the ear andover the ear types, and this style (for me) seems to offer sufficiently good sound quality and requires less power than others I've tried - and you can still hear the telephone ring. And they don't fall out of your ears or overheat them.
(Although I have this style of headphone, I know I did not pay anywhere near this amount ($70) for them.)
Andy
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August 3, 2009 at 04:26 PM ·
The iPod has very good digital converters in it. The greatest weak point is that downloads from places like iTunes are often/usually compressed to a very low quality, and the stock phones aren't designed for anything but ease of use and price.
If you do your own conversions to mp3 from CD at a high quality, and get some good phones and perhaps a little headphone amp, you will be surprised at the quality, but doing that will cost you as much as the iPod, or more. http://www.head-fi.org/ is the place to geek out on this.
For portable, I eventually settled for a little amp that costs about $300, and a couple sets of phones of similar price, for depending on where I want to listen, dropping quite a bit of cash along the way, but I'm pleased with the sound. For home I got a $1200 amp and similar phones, and the iPod does fine feeding them. In the long run, you'll get a lot more pleasure per dollar out of phones than speakers, if you can handle phones. At HeadFi you'll find a lot of stuff in the forums about maximizing your system's possibilities. And as they say there, "Welcome to HeadFi; sorry about your wallet."
What you'll eventually discover, especially once you leave the classical realm, is that the recording quality as it comes from the manufacturer, even on CDs, is going to be the weakest link in a lot of cases, not the iPod.