New DPA 4099 Miniature Microphone for violin players
Has anyone tried the new DPA 4099 microphone for violin players? http://www.dpamicrophones.com/
It clamps on to the body of the instrument and is supposed to be "designed never to mar or scratch the finish of your instrument". It is also capable of being easily compatible with a wireless system.
I have been using the DPA 4061. This is a small condenser microphone which sits on a mute-like clip which is held suspended by the strings behind the bridge. Works well - at that price is should! - but seems to be prone to feedback.
Replies (17)
I own the miniature DPA (4061) as well as the condenser and 2 omni-directional DPA's.
Haven't tried the 4099.
The omni's are by far the best - have been for me, anyway. The miniature is good- but picks up a lot of breathing and bow noise. It is so close to the bridge.
DPA's are great mics, for sure.
I heard the new zoom can now operate the internal as well as external mics simultaneously now. Is that true?
I think the miniature DPA is great for live apps.
It's pretty common for the miniature mic to pickup bow noise as well as the dreaded breathing noise, it can go booming loud if blow directly into the mic. I'm currently using Crown GLM 200, also have this very common problem, although the bow noise is well controlled, not too much pick up by the mic.
However, I can see how DPA 4099 can overcome this, search on youtube and you'll find a demostration of the mic, where the mic was clipped on the shoulder of the violin instead of the lower bouts, it's further away from the nose yet it still sound so good despite the youtube quality. Not sure about the bow noise, though.
I hate to show my ignorance but do you use the microphone for practicing?
No, its used for amplification.
I got to try the new 4099 the other day and could do a direct comparison with the 4061. I think it is a better sound and less prone to feedback as they say. The only problem is the clamping system - I don't use a shoulder rest and this makes the fitting of the mic rather difficult. Our orchestra use the 4061 for amplified gigs.
I have the DPA 4061, which sounds great. But certain small venues, feedback was a problem.
Friends have told me the 4099 has much higher gain before feedback. But I wonder if the mount dampened the violin's tone.
Did you find the mount affecting the violin tone? Was the weight of the mic and mount an issue?
Thanks,
Jason
In my opinion there is no doubt that if you want to play an acoustic violin in a small/medium venue (and money is no object as these things are expensive) a combination of one of the DPA mics with an AER Cube 60 amp is a briliant solution. The AER Cube 60 is also nice and compact and can be carried easily with a shoulder strap.
When I tried out the 4099 I didn't find the weight a problem. My issue with the clamping mechanism was because it sticks out a bit on the back of the violin and can be dislodged or bumped if you don't use a shoulder rest. I am sure it would be fine if you do use a shoulder rest.
The 4099 does have a much higher gain before feedback. I found the tone even better than the 4061 in a direct comparison (and using the AER amp). The 4061 mic with the mount behind the bridge is a much easier and less invasive way of mounting this mic, but I must say that I didn't find the 4099 heavy or damping the natural acoustic tone of the violin.
Thanks for all your feedback on this.
i just bought one on monday and it's awesome, the sound quality is stunning, it sound so natural and vibrant. just remember that it needs phantom power which not all desks can provide!
Because the 4099 is a hypercardiod, a mini "shotgun," I thought the sound would have more coloration. I also was concerned the mount would dampen the instrument slightly, which I find the carpenter jack for pick-ups do.
Now that I've heard all these excellent reports, I'm gonna try it.
(hope I can sell my 4061!)
Thanks everyone.
Jason
A new 4099 user reporting in.
This mic is incredible, it pick up quite a lot of the violin sound while reject background noise well. You'll immediately given an impresion that violin sound picked up being very "hot" due to the excellent noise rejection. In fact, with the same gain level on the preamp, it does really pickup the violin sound much hotter than many of the mics for similar task I tried including the Crown GLM200 and Audio Technica ATM350. Sound wise, quite natural, but a tad too dull for my taste, perhaps I need to experiment with some different positioning as not all violins share the same positiion.
The whole mounting together with mic is very light, and thanks to the thin cable too though the cable looks fragile. I have a mixed felling of the idea of the microdot thing, it looks pretty fragile (though there's a screw to secure to the connectors to prevent damage, still it's fragile when you're trying to install the connector), but it's also a brilliant idea that you can change the connector without the need of converters which add weights. I wish it's at both end where it's user replaceable. I can imagine how troublesome it is once the pin broken accidently as the other end of the cable is permenantly attached to the mic/gooseneck.
The included DAD4099 microdot to XLR has got 80Hz roll off and there'a belt clip on it, which kinda helps to prevent the mic/violin being pulled if somebody (perhaps myself, touch wood!) stepped on the cables on the floor.
Regarding the clamp, it's adjustable and the clamp is very gentle to the violin, yet it's stable even if I set the clamp loosely, perhaps due to the whole mic/gooseneck/clamp thing is very light. The clamp doesn't affect the sound, though I felt the sound somewhat changed slightly when hearing under the ear, perhaps the mic is blocking the way of the sound travelling from f hole to my ear, but my friend didn't notice any changes to the sound with and without the clamp when he listened to me playing.
All in all, a happy purchase. You can't possibly go wrong with this wonderful mic.
That is a great encomium for the DPA 4099. This thread was a bit slow to start but I am glad that more players are discovering this great product.
Did you combine it with an AER compact 60 amp? I agree that the clamp is very 'gentle' but my concern was the difficulty of using it without a shoulder-rest.
Martin - I didn't test it with AER but I've come across this in the past and it's a brilliant amp! I've however, tested it in a recording studio, which actually surprised a senior sound engineer of how natural the sound captured by the DPA4099. He commented that it doesn't sound like it's miked so close, very natural and will be great for live performances.
Regarding playing without shoulder rest, one thing is great about the DPA4099 is that you can clamp it anywhere on the body of the violin. You can clamp it further away from the lower bouts - you can always clamp it at upper bouts (sholders), on the non-playing side. Watch this youtube video and notice the sound still very natural despite clamping further from the f holes.
I've got both a DPA 4061 mini microphone and a DPA 4099, and have used them both on stage quite a bit (plugging directly into the house PA via Sennheiser Wireless unit), and in the studio.
What I notice is that the 4099 is generally darker than the 4061, and it definitely more directional. So, you get less bow noise with it, and a darker sound. If you're playing a bright violin, the 4099 will definitely be the better choice. But if you're playing a darker violin you may prefer the 4061. The 4061 has a smoother and stronger high end. Because my violin is definitely on the warm/dark side (it's a Jonathan Cooper), I tend to prefer the 4061 for studio work (in combination with good condenser mic), and the 4099 for concerts, mainly because it gets rid of bow noise in my headphones.
I've been mounting both mics just between the bridge and tailpiece, underneath the strings, per the advice of DPA's president. Experimented with some other placments and found this worked best overall for volume and for reproducing a completely natural sound. The mic placement in that YouTube video probably would not be as effective in a louder stage situation.
Both mics are great. Really great. And DPA is a first-rate company to work with. They'll probably send you both mics on spec to test so you can make a determination which one best suits your instrument.
I agreed about the sound being darker, but I've tried some mic that's even darker than the 4099. Moreover, being darker is what make it sounds like it's miked at a distance than having the mic stucked on the instrument where it'll amplify the bow noises and make the audiences feel like they stuck their ear on the instrument.
What I really liked about the 4099 is the background noise or off axis rejection, and the extra signal gain compared to other mics (other mics sounded much quiet while the retaining a noisy background noises). And in most situation, an EQ will most probably available on either acoustic amps or mixer board, so I don't think that's much of a problem anyway, you can always boost a little highs or simply cut the mids so that it actually make it sound brighter.
Agreed about the position demostrated in the youtube video. I've actually tried that position and the signal is not that healthy (though still sounded great on that video, perhaps with the help of the sound man behind), but nevertheless at least there's this solution for a non-shoulder-rest players. Or maybe just sticked to the omni 4061?
Was wondering if you have had any feedback issues with the 4099 yet. thanks
Never used this mic yet(familiar with condensers), but heard that they do have feed back problems ,as with any type of condenser mic.They may have less feedback then a condenser mic on a stand because they are so close to the source.If you are going to use condenser mics on stage,it helps to use a spectrum analyzer and a 31 band graphic EQ.If you like a loud stage ,then this is not the way to go.
Nothing will beat pickup or electric violin for loud stage performances - because violin is a quiet instrument by nature! On the other hand, great engineers can do wonders for condenser mics on a loud stage. If you have feedback problem, you can blame the live sound engineer. ;-)
If you compare mini condenser mics, DPA4099 is one of the top notch instrument mic - hotter signal at the same gain, better background noise and off axis rejection, with a buttery smooth sound.
This discussion has been archived and is no longer accepting responses.
Violinist.com is made possible by...
Dimitri Musafia, Master Maker of Violin and Viola Cases
Johnson String Instrument/Carriage House Violins
Subscribe
Laurie's Books
Discover the best of Violinist.com in these collections of editor Laurie Niles' exclusive interviews.
Violinist.com Interviews Volume 1, with introduction by Hilary Hahn
Violinist.com Interviews Volume 2, with introduction by Rachel Barton Pine
March 25, 2009 at 04:08 PM ·
I just gathered enough funds to buy this mic. Pretty expensive, but it's sure something miniscular compared to those prized instruments!
I'll update this thread with my findings soon, and hope to share my findings about this mic with fellow violinists here.